Why you need to learn to move with a loaded firearm - Page 2 - MP-Pistol Forum

Why you need to learn to move with a loaded firearm

This is a discussion on Why you need to learn to move with a loaded firearm within the CCW forums, part of the Armory category; There are some very high quality replicas used by professional orgs and also competitors. There are guys in Japan who do 99% of their training ...


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Old March 17th, 2013, 06:13 PM   #16
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There are some very high quality replicas used by professional orgs and also competitors. There are guys in Japan who do 99% of their training with airsoft, then come over here and whip a ton of Americans butts.

Check out BAM Airsoft for videos and products used for serious training.
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Old March 17th, 2013, 06:34 PM   #17
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Another point of view about shooting on the move:

Shooting on the move? A second opinion. | Handgun Combatives
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Old March 17th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #18
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Agksimon, that was a fantastic article!
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Old March 18th, 2013, 10:33 AM   #19
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Great article for real life defensive shooting although competitions still require shots on the move, so I wont stop practicing it.
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Old March 18th, 2013, 11:16 AM   #20
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I don't know what the big deal is.

The author is talking about "moving with a loaded firearm" not shooting while moving.

Just have it in whatever ready position suitable then move, and control the muzzle direction as needed to adjust for someone you don't want to shoot getting in front, etc.

There's nothing really much to it. You don't have to do IDPA or IPSC do learn that. Besides, it's not as if those competitions teach searching with a flashlight while holding a gun in retention position, etc. I get a chuckle when people who think they actually have something to be cocky about after doing some competition runs. Doing some running and gunning do not make them prepared for the streets when in reality it only gives them some practice for gun handling skills in a controlled environment while using tactics that would get them killed. Their movement is geared toward course of fire in a shortest time frame. It has nothing to do with tactics, and they do a lot of stuff that you should not be doing in real life operations. Nothing wrong with learning some gun handling skills in competition. I'm just saying it's funny they think they know enough to look down upon some people who can only afford ranges that do not allow movements.

Moving with a loaded gun itself is not hard at all. Can you walk? Do you know how to hold a gun in ready position? Can you practice muzzle awareness? If you can say "yes" to all three, then you got it.

However, what you should be worried about is adjusting to real life situations. Various different situations require different type of ready positions, and sometimes you even need to conceal the gun from a certain direction in situations where it is uncertain you want to display a gun while having the gun in hand. Sometimes you need "sul" posture while some other times you need modified high ready with someone in front, with the muzzle pointing higher than the person, if you are trying to be alert against an upper level of a staircase.

As far as moving while shooting goes, most institutions are doing it wrong. I'd rather move fast then slow enough or stop to shoot then move fast again. The reason is that I've seen moving while shooting training in and out of the military, and the trainees would slow to such a speed that I have no problem making head shots on them in close quarters. So, what is the point if you are not making yourself a harder target and only making your accuracy suffer? Paul Howe seems to somewhat agrees me on this point also. He stated that when enemy got a drop on him, he'd run for cover, and when he got the drop on the enemy he'd stop and shoot. An exception to this is in extreme close range where I can actually move fast enough to matter and still get hits. But, moving at turtle speed while shooting at a target 10m away is just non-sense.

Last edited by grayblue; March 18th, 2013 at 11:31 AM.
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Old March 20th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #21
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Why you need to learn to move with a loaded firearm

Seems like a good training regimen could and should include both range work (3X3 cubicle) and moving. Working with a variety of situations would lead to more awareness of potential issues and how to deal with them. But shooting from a range station can help accuracy and familiarity with the gun too. I do a variety of drills in a range station, practicing with gun down (not holstered, the range doesn't like that) and bringing it into position, sight picture, target, fire, scan, etc. You can do more than just point and shoot even in a range. I do practice draw, sight, fire at home in different situations as well, and I have an airsoft FS M&P 40 on order to help even more with that.


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Old June 16th, 2014, 09:42 AM   #22
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Fighter pilots said it this way "Speed + Movement = LIFE"

Cheers,
Marc
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Old May 16th, 2015, 12:24 PM   #23
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While I agree with the more training the better, according to the FBI, the majority of SD situations are 1-3 shots. More likely as not, in the home. We're not talking about re-taking Hue or Fallujah. The time spent in that 3x3 square promotes familiarity with the weapon as well as correct grip and sight picture, everything a home owner would need in an SD situation. MHO you understand.
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Old May 16th, 2015, 12:39 PM   #24
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You really dug up an oldie there Donn... How did you come across it?
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Old May 16th, 2015, 03:26 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Donn View Post
While I agree with the more training the better, according to the FBI, the majority of SD situations are 1-3 shots. More likely as not, in the home. We're not talking about re-taking Hue or Fallujah. The time spent in that 3x3 square promotes familiarity with the weapon as well as correct grip and sight picture, everything a home owner would need in an SD situation. MHO you understand.
I agree with you and what some others have posted. Training is very important, but range time is not training. People equate round count and range time as training it is NOT. Doing something 1000 times wrong only wastes 1000 rounds that could have been used to better your skill set. Here is a link to a podcast called "The American Warrior Show" with a guest by the name of Tom Givens, Tom is one of the top instructors in the country and has had 65 of his students involved in self defense shootings. His training curriculum is based off real world ccw encounters not off fbi numbers which are law enforcement involved shootings and there data. If you have the time I encourage everyone to give it a listen...
The American Warrior Show: The Way Of The Gun
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Old May 16th, 2015, 05:23 PM   #26
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I believe that folks should seek out and obtain the best training they can afford, then use IDPA, etc. as a means to use the skills they learned, and keep them fresh.

Just don't get sucked into the "gamer" midset, and use it to work on the skills that are important to you (not going slow and worrying about procedurals, or being "zero down").
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Old May 16th, 2015, 06:10 PM   #27
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I use a M&P9 replica BB gun in the backyard and woods. No help with recoil but better than nothing.
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Old April 1st, 2016, 04:33 PM   #28
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the Mass FireArms School here in mass offers a curriculum that covers this very subject. there are 5 courses , each one expanding on the previous one. I have taken I and II so far , II had a lot of drawing and shooting drills while moving left to right, right to left, approaching your target straight on, drawing and firing and doing the same while retreating. A SWAT guy teaches all 5 courses . 4 hours a piece, it was very eye opening as we shot 5 round mags 'at a time" and examined our targets between mags to see where we were pulling during each type of movement.
I definitely felt much more confident "Carrying" after these 2 classes. III and IV are coming up in May...can't wait , these will focus more on "Positional" drawing and shooting.

Last edited by kmanick; April 4th, 2016 at 01:51 PM.
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Old April 2nd, 2016, 06:33 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by JeffWard View Post
Why is most all training done standing in a 3X3 square? Because most of the ass-hats shooting at a gun range should be restricted to shooting from a 3X3 concrete bunker...

Anybody who is serious about training will FIND a way/location where they can move and shoot. Unless the only defensive shooting you plan on doing is from the cover (concealment) of your bedroom door... But then, you can practice shooting from cover at a 3X3 range either. You can't draw from a holster. You can't draw from concealment. You can't shoot faster than one round every 2 seconds... All rules to protect the idiots who only shoot once every 6-12 months, or those too irresponsible to own a gun anyway...

I agree that USPSA/IDPA is the best REGULAR training you can do for gun manipulation, shooting and moving, shooting with accuracy under pressure, etc. Maybe not as good as a top notch defensive shooting school, like Frontsight, or one of the others, but I don't have the cash to do THAT 3-6 times per month!

I try to shoot 250-1000 rounds per month. I'm shooting the Florida State USPSA Championships this coming Sunday. That will be 200-250 rounds on the clock on one Sunday! SWEEEEET!

Get out and TRAIN! Get out of the dead-man's square.

Jeff
EXACTLY why I participate in IDPA. At this particular moment in my life I simply can not afford the extensive HG training I so desperately need and wish to take, so I will compromise and do lots of IDPA and when my budget allows get some top shelf instruction.
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Old August 3rd, 2016, 07:38 PM   #30
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paint ball or air soft. not for this old guy, my body can not do such things like move bounce around. heck just placing a knee on the ground hurts. and i sometime might need help standing back up.

and no i am not that fat guy decked out in body armor.
just old and broken down.

but if i could maybe paint ball?

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