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If ever there was a doubt about the need to carry

This is a discussion on If ever there was a doubt about the need to carry within the CCW forums, part of the Armory category; A gun is a tool. Not very useful if you don't know when and how to use it. Like most tools, you don't really need ...


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Old April 1st, 2017, 03:10 AM   #16
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A gun is a tool. Not very useful if you don't know when and how to use it.

Like most tools, you don't really need it - till you do need it. At that time, not having it, creates a negative effect on your life, sometimes worse than others.

Not gun related at all, but still a bad outcome - my youngest son when to school with kid who had a flat tire coming home from work at a local grocery store one night. No spare tire in the trunk so he left the car on the side of the road and started walking to a gas station just down the road. He never made it. Hit and run. Someone who came down the road later found him lying on the side of the road already dead. Bad stuff happens. You give it the opportunity to happen more/worse based on your actions, or lack of action.
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Old April 1st, 2017, 05:19 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by M1A4ME View Post
A gun is a tool. Not very useful if you don't know when and how to use it.

Like most tools, you don't really need it - till you do need it. At that time, not having it, creates a negative effect on your life, sometimes worse than others.

Not gun related at all, but still a bad outcome - my youngest son when to school with kid who had a flat tire coming home from work at a local grocery store one night. No spare tire in the trunk so he left the car on the side of the road and started walking to a gas station just down the road. He never made it. Hit and run. Someone who came down the road later found him lying on the side of the road already dead. Bad stuff happens. You give it the opportunity to happen more/worse based on your actions, or lack of action.
A very good analogy and it does apply. It illustrates the reason I greatly resent being unable to carry on my job.
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Old April 1st, 2017, 05:57 AM   #18
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A gun like a parachute is not missed til you really need it.

And like a parachute if you need it and dont have it your likely not going to ever need one again.


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Old April 4th, 2017, 07:46 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by LordRahl View Post
Reckless highway bikers caught on video beating up motorist after trapping him on roadside

I have no doubt had that been a CCW holder in a pro 2nd Amendment state, the driver would not have ended up like the driver of that car and one or more of those hoodlums would be the ones in a meat wagon or coroner van.

A San Francisco Police Department spokeswoman told SFGate that “they’re biking up and down some stairs near some apartment complexes. We won’t chase them because it’s too dangerous.”


The bikes and ATVs are unregistered and can elude the police with impunity.

So what the police are essentially saying is "we won't do a d**n thing so the public, who pay our salaries, are on their own in the face of those hoodlums and will just have to suck it up.
Well it is commiefornia and rule of law doesn't mean much there.

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What makes anyone think those bikers didn't have their own guns as well? With 6 or 8 of them against 1 of you, you pull a gun and sure, maybe you get one of them, and maybe you get yourself blown away.
Or you can just keep your gun holstered and WILL DEFINITELY get the crap beaten out of you and possibly die. I will not go easily.

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Well, seeing as though we are talking California here, especially SanFran, this does not surprise me one bit.
They definitely need to split that state for the libs to have their part and American patriots to have the rest.
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Old April 16th, 2017, 01:28 PM   #20
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I agree about "splitting" the state into two parts....I'm sure the people who live there feel the same way.
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Old April 16th, 2017, 08:13 PM   #21
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The same thing needs to happen to new york... We need a wall built to keep new york city libtards from coming upstate. Anything from albany ny east, a wall needs to be put up. The southern tier of ny where i live, several surrounding counties are talking to Pennsylvania in hopes we can bring the penn state line up into the southern tier and get away from ny entirely. I wont hold my breath though... i`ll be long gone dead before it ever happenns, if it even happens at all.

The biggest thing that can help ny, ELIMINATE CUOMO and his band of demOrat thieves.
That commie has done NOTHING for ny but tax us, give tax dollars out to areas that dont need it and shouldn`t have it. He has NOT created ANY jobs, people leaving everyday.
Cuomo`s answer is to tax us more because tax payer`s are leaving. Its all fun an games until you run out of the other peoples money...typical demOrat thinking.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 09:48 AM   #22
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Not to start anything, and for the record I'm not a hoodlum, and what is going on it that video is not only wrong, but against the law too, but I had a motorist turn left in front of me this week while I'm on my bike, causing me to have to power side a Harley through an intersection. My options were, slam into his car and most likely die or get mangled. Let go of the bike, and get run over by the car behind me, or slide the bike sideways and rely on my skills I learned as a kid racing dirt bikes. Option 3 won, and I lived.

Then I then went after the ass that almost killed me. As far as I'm concerned, your car is a weapon, and if you cause that, its attempted murder. I don't care what the law says. The driver is lucky I couldn't get him out his window before the light changed. I wanted him to feel the same fear of death that I did, from him not wanting to wait, and choosing to cut me off.

Motorist have no excuses for not obeying the laws. Don't give me the crap that " I didn't see you" He should have seen the car right behind me then. My wife and kids almost lost me for good.

As far as the video, those people on the bikes were breaking the laws. They should be dealt with accordingly.

As far as law abiding motorcyclist and people in cars cutting them off. Until you have your life flash in front of you because of some jackass turning left in front of you, you wont understand. When your in a car, you have metal protecting you. We don't on a motorcycle, so when you see someone texting and driving, and they almost take your life, you tend to take offence to it.

Last edited by Laars; April 17th, 2017 at 11:02 AM.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 12:20 PM   #23
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Then I then went after the ass that almost killed me. As far as I'm concerned, your car is a weapon, and if you cause that, its attempted murder. I don't care what the law says. The driver is lucky I couldn't get him out his window before the light changed. I wanted him to feel the same fear of death that I did, from him not wanting to wait, and choosing to cut me off.
While I agree the driver's negligence may have endangered your life, you were not injured.

The second you gave into the impulse to go after him and "get him out his window before the light changed", you are now the aggressor and as such could be charged with assault. In this case you would not have been able to claim "self-defense". It would be tantamount to chasing an intruder out of your house and shooting him on the sidewalk.

Folks, there are a lot of idiotic drivers on the road and often when they do things that endanger and/or infuriate us, our first instinct is to retaliate.

We need to resist such an urge. To many people have been killed and injured due to road rage.

Is it really worth the risk of going to jail or worse trying to chase down some idiot who cut you off?

If a person is driving recklessly endangering you or others, call the police.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 03:04 PM   #24
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While I agree the driver's negligence may have endangered your life, you were not injured.

The second you gave into the impulse to go after him and "get him out his window before the light changed", you are now the aggressor and as such could be charged with assault. In this case you would not have been able to claim "self-defense". It would be tantamount to chasing an intruder out of your house and shooting him on the sidewalk.

Folks, there are a lot of idiotic drivers on the road and often when they do things that endanger and/or infuriate us, our first instinct is to retaliate.

We need to resist such an urge. To many people have been killed and injured due to road rage.

Is it really worth the risk of going to jail or worse trying to chase down some idiot who cut you off?

If a person is driving recklessly endangering you or others, call the police.
Call the police? And what are they gonna do? I would have no plate number, and since I didn't die, they maybe give them a moving violation for failure to yield. Big deal. What I did was put the same fear in them that they put in me, so now the next time they think about cutting a rider off, they may think twice. Sorry, unless you ride a motorcycle your not going to understand, and that's part of the problem. It's either a rider is so good, he lives, and nothing happens, or the rider is seriously injured or dies.

That's the problem. Unless the rider dies, nothing is done. And the cycle keeps repeating itself.

The " you weren't injured " is a bullshit statement". My skill level on a bike shouldn't determine the amount of negligence on that driver. I will tell you that 19 out of 20 riders would not have rode out of that avoided accident. Most would have been DOA. I raced dirt bikes as a teen, and that's why I'm still alive. That is the number one cause of death for a motorcycle rider. Car turns left in front of them.

I was entering the intersection at 20 mph, and less then 30 feet from me they turned left in front of me. Your bike can't stop. Your going to hit them. I put the bike into a slide, flat track style with my ass end of the bike to my left, to try and control the crash. As I missed them, and get the bike going straight again, another car starts to go and stops, sticking his fender 3 feet into my lane. I now have to snap the bike around and slide it the other way. Not only was it crazy to do it once, I had to do it twice. I still didn't go down. I did this with a Harley. I shouldnt even be here to be discussing this. All because of some jackass trying to take my life. That's what happened.

I can't be the only motorcyclist on this forum. I'm I still pissed? Hell yes I am. That person almost took my life because they didn't want to wait for the cars behind me. You can call it what you want, they tried to kill me, and no law would cover it unless I'm dead. I made sure that person realized what they did, and I'd do it again.

Last edited by Laars; April 17th, 2017 at 03:51 PM.
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Old April 17th, 2017, 04:58 PM   #25
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Call the police? And what are they gonna do? I would have no plate number, and since I didn't die, they maybe give them a moving violation for failure to yield. Big deal. What I did was put the same fear in them that they put in me, so now the next time they think about cutting a rider off, they may think twice. Sorry, unless you ride a motorcycle your not going to understand, and that's part of the problem. It's either a rider is so good, he lives, and nothing happens, or the rider is seriously injured or dies.

That's the problem. Unless the rider dies, nothing is done. And the cycle keeps repeating itself.

The " you weren't injured " is a bullshit statement". My skill level on a bike shouldn't determine the amount of negligence on that driver. I will tell you that 19 out of 20 riders would not have rode out of that avoided accident. Most would have been DOA. I raced dirt bikes as a teen, and that's why I'm still alive. That is the number one cause of death for a motorcycle rider. Car turns left in front of them.

I was entering the intersection at 20 mph, and less then 30 feet from me they turned left in front of me. Your bike can't stop. Your going to hit them. I put the bike into a slide, flat track style with my ass end of the bike to my left, to try and control the crash. As I missed them, and get the bike going straight again, another car starts to go and stops, sticking his fender 3 feet into my lane. I now have to snap the bike around and slide it the other way. Not only was it crazy to do it once, I had to do it twice. I still didn't go down. I did this with a Harley. I shouldnt even be here to be discussing this. All because of some jackass trying to take my life. That's what happened.

I can't be the only motorcyclist on this forum. I'm I still pissed? Hell yes I am. That person almost took my life because they didn't want to wait for the cars behind me. You can call it what you want, they tried to kill me, and no law would cover it unless I'm dead. I made sure that person realized what they did, and I'd do it again.
I understand and agree completely!

I ride a Triumph Rocket III Roadster, and dodge more old timers who shouldn't still be driving than anyone who doesn't ride would ever believe.

Hell, one of 'em ran into the r3r while it was parked at the gas pump (I was standing between it and the pump), and broke the right footpeg clean off!

That one worked out fine, but when someone almost kills me, intentionally or not; I take it very seriously.

In your situation; I'd have beat the SOB bloody if I could have got to him!
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Old April 17th, 2017, 05:14 PM   #26
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I understand and agree completely!

I ride a Triumph Rocket III Roadster, and dodge more old timers who shouldn't still be driving than anyone who doesn't ride would ever believe.

Hell, one of 'em ran into the r3r while it was parked at the gas pump (I was standing between it and the pump), and broke the right footpeg clean off!

That one worked out fine, but when someone almost kills me, intentionally or not; I take it very seriously.

In your situation; I'd have beat the SOB bloody if I could have got to him!
Thanks Rick. Unless someone rides, they just don't get it.

As I type this, someone from one of my bike forums posted about his little brother who may not make it because a cager did the same to him. "He got taken to a trauma center and has a rupture spleen, broken pelvis, broken ribs and possible head injuries. When they had him in surgery, he went into cardiac arrest and one of his lungs is collapse. They had to put him on life support and now are stabilizing him. He is in critical condition and they will need to go back in to check for other injuries assuming that he makes it and is able to stabilize".
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Old April 17th, 2017, 08:38 PM   #27
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I`m with ya Laars, many times i`ve had to do dirt bike maneuvers on my harley to avoid being killed. Like you, i myself was born motocross racing, been riding over 50+yrs. My wife rides a 04 softail nightrain too, she`s an excellent rider, but has had many close calls too in the past 20yrs she`s owned her own bikes.

Last year at the opening of riding season here in NY, we lost a dear friend of ours to a MC accident. My wife an i never even got our harleys out last year, they sat in the garage all summer due to losing our good friend from a stupid ass driver that wasn`t paying attention.

And again, like you, i`ve chased a few people down... a few of them got taken out of their cars by me. I dont even have to tell you what happened once i got them out of their cars. But these days, i`m alot older... and the things i`ve learned thru the years, your gonna run out of knuckles eventually... because your out numbered by stupid people.

There are ONLY, 2 kinds of bike riders.... lucky ones, and dead ones... just a matter of time.

Ride safe my friend
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Old April 18th, 2017, 12:51 AM   #28
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Thanks Rick. Unless someone rides, they just don't get it.
Riding doesn't help any. I showed your posts to my brother and he had the same reaction as I did.

Responding to a left hook by twisting the throttle wide open and power-sliding the bike is just bizarre. Considering jumping off the bike is equally strange; if you have enough time and space to do that without hitting the left-turning vehicle then you can brake to a stop. Speaking of stopping, according to IdahoSTAR a skilled motorcyclist should be able to stop from 20mph in less than 15 feet.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 02:38 AM   #29
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Riding doesn't help any. I showed your posts to my brother and he had the same reaction as I did.

Responding to a left hook by twisting the throttle wide open and power-sliding the bike is just bizarre. Considering jumping off the bike is equally strange; if you have enough time and space to do that without hitting the left-turning vehicle then you can brake to a stop. Speaking of stopping, according to IdahoSTAR a skilled motorcyclist should be able to stop from 20mph in less than 15 feet.
This is why people that don't ride have NO clue. What you don't see is, it's NH, where two weeks ago, we got a foot of snow and we still have the crap on the roads that keep ice from forming. The roads are treated, so when the snow hits it, it stays wet, and doesn't freeze. It takes a while for that to wash away. Tires felt like grease in the unusual 80 degree heat with that ice brine stuff baked into the roads.

It wasn't a power slide,( I was giving a description to people who don't ride) as I hit the brakes, the tires slid on the pavement, and I slid the back end around, then released the brakes, hit the gas to keep from high siding it, and back on the brakes. Picture trying to stop on wet grass.

As far as stopping within 15 feet, not sure they did that with a old Harley. My sport bike could stop on a dime, but it had duel disks and weighed half as much. Harley's are not high tech at all. In fact, on my sport bike, 90% of your braking is on the front. My Harley is maybe 60% 40% with 60% on the back. Think about your comment " skilled rider should be able to stop in 15 feet going 20mph." Now think about stopping a ford Escort doing 20 mph or stopping a tractor trailer truck. You think the stopping time is the same. Your dealing with speed, and weight. Sport bike weights half as much as a Harley and have twice the braking power.

Getting off the bike and getting rid of an 800lb metal monster is the wise thing to do at that point. As it was sliding, my back leg was dragging on the ground as a rudder. You hang on to that as it goes down and it will beat you to death. Show this to your brother and see what he says.

Last edited by Laars; April 18th, 2017 at 03:00 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:14 AM   #30
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As a rider I detest inconsiderate ignorant drivers which is 95% of cars on road.
YOU have to look out for you and them.
I wouldnt have chased um down most likely but I have whne the opportunity is there let a few know to " PAY ATTENTION".

As mentioned above if your not a rider on a regular basis you really wont get it.

And a non rider will NEVER get the skill involved in really "riding" a bike and what it takes to "control" one and how its done no latter how many ways and times you type or try to explain it.

BE SAFE BROTHERS. HEAD ON A SWIVEL ALWAYS.


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