IDPA moving to 1 full sec per point down? - MP-Pistol Forum

IDPA moving to 1 full sec per point down?

This is a discussion on IDPA moving to 1 full sec per point down? within the Competition forums, part of the Shooting category; I read some info about this last fall but nothing since then. As far as I can tell the current IDPA rule book still states ...


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Old March 7th, 2016, 10:21 AM   #1
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IDPA moving to 1 full sec per point down?

I read some info about this last fall but nothing since then. As far as I can tell the current IDPA rule book still states the old .5 sec added per point down.

Anybody know what's going on with this issue?
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Old March 7th, 2016, 07:40 PM   #2
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From the local match directors, it's all but certain to happen when the rule book is revised next.

With it will go much of the joy of shooting IDPA. But we'll all become much more accurate.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 03:48 AM   #3
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"With it will go much of the joy of shooting IDPA. But we'll all become much more accurate."

Just curious but why do you think that?Why will it change anything?I personally don't think it will change anything, people will finish no different with 1 second versus 1/2 second for each point down. Times will change for sure but how people finish or "place" no. Please don't take my questions personal, I just see a lot of folks upset about it and don't understand why. I find it to be more fun to get "good hits on the target versus down 3's or misses.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 04:19 AM   #4
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The one second rule went into effect as of the first of January, 2016.
Personally, I think it will make people aim better, which was the original intent of IDPA, before the "gamers" got into it. When you run a five stage course and are 50-60 points down, but you are a good slow fire shooter, there's a reason for it: You're overrunning your ability, which I see a lot of people do.

Last edited by agksimon; March 8th, 2016 at 06:53 AM.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 06:46 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by D.O.A.F.S. View Post
Just curious but why do you think that?Why will it change anything?I personally don't think it will change anything, people will finish no different with 1 second versus 1/2 second for each point down.
As a background, I want you to know that I am 100% a hardcore gamer. I go to state level sanctioned matches to win, and typically place somewhere in the top three in SSP Master.

From that perspective, this will absolutely change the approach I take to about 1/2 of the courses of fire that I shoot. Clipping the -1 with two or three of my 18 in order to push fast enough to win is no longer a viable option. There is a huge difference between needing 80-80% of your hits to be zero down, and actually shooting to ensure everything is zero down.

1.5 seconds in penalty time (shooting 3 points down under the old rules) on a run-and-gun stage with a hallway and two or more rooms to enter... typically resulted in stage times two to three seconds faster than the guy who shot it cleanly. Again, assuming you're talking about the speed-demon Master level shooters who are fighting for the SSP or ESP Division Championship.

That's no longer the case. Three seconds is a huge amount of time to try to recover by moving faster in a 12-20 second long stage.

In my opinion this was a bad move because the way I will shoot a stage with an extremely low hit factor (IDPA's new rules) is NOT the way I would shoot in a self defense situation unless it's taking place on a school bus full of kids.

Minute-of-torso accuracy is the rule of the day in shootings - fast hits win in gunfights. I'd rather slam three "one point down" hits into him as quickly as possible than take my time to try to shoot a three inch group.

So in this instance, I'd say that as far as making it more realistic AND more fun for the gamers... it's a lose/lose situation.

Last edited by MemphisMechanic; March 8th, 2016 at 07:05 AM.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 06:50 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by agksimon View Post
TWhen you run a five stage course and are 50-60 points down, but you are a good slow fire shooter, there's a reason for it: You're overrunning your ability, which a see a lot of people do.
There is a name for these shooters.

They're called Experts.

(or last-place Masters)

Look at the gamers who are winning. I never won anything in the SSP Mater division & class by dropping more than 20% of the available points. You can't. I know. I used to be the "most points down, 8th place finish" Expert/Master. Someone who has taken the time to become blazing fast AND accurate will always destroy you in the final standings. Because the raw times to both approaches are within a fraction of each other... but only one of you is lobbing multiple Mikes at steel and playing tag with the noshoots.

Eventually the speed demons realize they can shoot just as fast while focusing on the front sight as they can while looking through the sights. That's when they start being guys you need to keep an eye on when you are trying to win the big DC at a match.

Last edited by MemphisMechanic; March 8th, 2016 at 07:05 AM.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 06:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by agksimon View Post
The one second rule went into effect as of the first of January, 2016.
Can you share where you saw this in print?
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Old March 8th, 2016, 07:02 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by MemphisMechanic View Post
Someone who has taken the time to become blazing fast AND accurate will always destroy you in the final standings.
You hit it right on the head... Blazing fast and accurate. Most guys tend to be one or the other, until they get a lot of practice under their belt.

As for winning a gunfight, a FTN may not stop the bad guy. That's why I want my shots to be zero or one, at the most.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 07:07 AM   #9
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Realistically, I think we'd all agree the bad guy is going to be playing "catch the bill drill to the majority of the torso" if everything goes well for the good guy in a fight.

Now lets go back to discussing IDPA. ;-)
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Old March 8th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #10
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My take on the issue. 1 sec per point down deviates from defensive shooting. I thought the real defensive aspect was the point of IDPA as compared to USPSA.

At distances of 7 yards or less I can point shoot 0s 70-80% of the time with the rest of the hits (on a good day) plus 1s. That's exactly how I'd shoot in a gun fight and I think anybody would with the skills and confidence to do it would shoot that way. Also, most people end up point shooting in an emergency anyway.

The rule change mandates a slower shooting technique for most shooters in order to be competitive. An unrealistic amount of slowness IMO. At the very least if IDPA is going to the new scoring the 0 zone should be adjusted. As is, two shots to the throat area (upper spine) will be plus two seconds where as in real life one shot in this are is a show stopper. Also the 0 zone is too wide on a IDPA target. A USPSA target is more realistic.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 12:42 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by MemphisMechanic View Post
As a background, I want you to know that I am 100% a hardcore gamer. I go to state level sanctioned matches to win, and typically place somewhere in the top three in SSP Master.

From that perspective, this will absolutely change the approach I take to about 1/2 of the courses of fire that I shoot. Clipping the -1 with two or three of my 18 in order to push fast enough to win is no longer a viable option. There is a huge difference between needing 80-80% of your hits to be zero down, and actually shooting to ensure everything is zero down.

1.5 seconds in penalty time (shooting 3 points down under the old rules) on a run-and-gun stage with a hallway and two or more rooms to enter... typically resulted in stage times two to three seconds faster than the guy who shot it cleanly. Again, assuming you're talking about the speed-demon Master level shooters who are fighting for the SSP or ESP Division Championship.

That's no longer the case. Three seconds is a huge amount of time to try to recover by moving faster in a 12-20 second long stage.

In my opinion this was a bad move because the way I will shoot a stage with an extremely low hit factor (IDPA's new rules) is NOT the way I would shoot in a self defense situation unless it's taking place on a school bus full of kids.

Minute-of-torso accuracy is the rule of the day in shootings - fast hits win in gunfights. I'd rather slam three "one point down" hits into him as quickly as possible than take my time to try to shoot a three inch group.

So in this instance, I'd say that as far as making it more realistic AND more fun for the gamers... it's a lose/lose situation.
Fair enough, and I understand your reasoning with your skill set. Most folks I've talked too and have concerns or gripes about it are not Master or even Expert class shooters. They are shooters that wish they had that skill set and way over run or out shoot their abilities. Their concerns are the down 3's and misses, that will "hurt" their scores and widen the gap between themselves and the guys at the top of their class shooting down zero's and 1's.
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Old March 8th, 2016, 06:51 PM   #12
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So, I understand the change in the points down, but has anybody heard if they are going to change the classification times?
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Old March 8th, 2016, 10:24 PM   #13
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They may not have discussed it yet, but they're going to have to. Or stage 3 of the classifier is going to slaughter everyone far more horribly than it already has been.
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Old March 9th, 2016, 04:55 AM   #14
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I'm already a good bit more accurate than the guys in my area. I'm really going to be beating the pants off them when this goes into effect.

They're trying to create an identity further from USPSA which I'm fine with. Might not be the best idea, but at least they're trying.

Last edited by Shanesy; March 9th, 2016 at 04:59 AM.
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Old December 19th, 2016, 07:26 AM   #15
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I'm already a good bit more accurate than the guys in my area. I'm really going to be beating the pants off them when this goes into effect.

They're trying to create an identity further from USPSA which I'm fine with. Might not be the best idea, but at least they're trying.
With the new RB the sport has morphed into USPSA with a cover garment. Now you can reload anywhere you want as long as you cannot see an unengaged target. Cover is a joke now with the fault line rules. Not sure where anyone sees much difference now between the sports.

Take Care

Bob
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