LEOs switching from .40 back to 9mm? - Page 3 - MP-Pistol Forum

LEOs switching from .40 back to 9mm?

This is a discussion on LEOs switching from .40 back to 9mm? within the Law Enforcement forums, part of the Armory category; Originally Posted by cmichael' post='250546' date='Apr 1 2010, 02:32 AM Why not M&P 357Mag ? That's a revolver cartridge and most LEO are using pistols....


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Old April 1st, 2010, 09:11 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmichael' post='250546' date='Apr 1 2010, 02:32 AM
Why not M&P 357Mag ?
That's a revolver cartridge and most LEO are using pistols.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 09:55 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffWard' post='241388' date='Feb 9 2010, 01:58 PM
SWEET!!! More cheap once-fired 9mm brass for me!



Personally, I don't care which one they shoot, and if I was a LEO, I'd prefer 9mm...



JW


The LAPD Officers during the Bank of America shootout I'm sure would disagree. lol



But seriously with the newer bonded ammo 9mm has become a good alternative when cost is involved.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 10:50 AM   #33
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I have fired 9MM, 40, and 45 Gold dot rounds into milk jugs full of water. All from full size M&P's. They all go through three jugs and end up in number 4. That said I have to consider penetration with comparable ammo equal. What is unequal is the diameter of the resultant slug.



There is no question in my mind which is the most effective round and which the least effective. The 9 and 40 are compromises to accommodate conceal-ability, small hands, lack of ability (capacity) and fear of recoil.



Any of them if hitting the spinal column will equal instant success. Any other than perfect hits will have caliber dependent effectiveness.



I don't have small hands, don't have to conceal in absolute terms and am not fearful of the recoil so carry an M&P45FS.



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Old April 1st, 2010, 11:30 AM   #34
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seawolf' post='250581' date='Apr 1 2010, 12:55 PM
The LAPD Officers during the Bank of America shootout I'm sure would disagree. lol



But seriously with the newer bonded ammo 9mm has become a good alternative when cost is involved.


Because a .40 or .45 would have preformed much better against the BGs body armor.



...Oh,wait...What?...







Quote:
The 9 and 40 are compromises to accommodate conceal-ability, small hands, lack of ability (capacity) and fear of recoil.


A .45 1911 conceals as well or better than a double stack "hi-cap" 9mm/.40.



I have gorilla mitts....And again,the grip on a 1911 is slimmer than a double stack 9/40.



The recoil of a .300 WM doesn't seem bother me...But ok.The only "fear" I have of recoil is it slowing split times and the getting of rounds on target as fast as humanly possible.



I'm not even going to comment on how ridiculous the "higher capacity = lack of ability" is.We'll just chalk that up to a dinosaur-ism.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 12:43 PM   #35
 
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I chose not to assume that because most gunfights are over before 8 rounds are up that mine will be as well. I chose to carry 18.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 12:55 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by The Jerm' post='250593' date='Apr 1 2010, 11:30 AM
I'm not even going to comment on how ridiculous the "higher capacity = lack of ability" is.
I've always shown a great deal of respect for you, TOF, but I've gotta part ways with you on this one buddy.



When it comes to putting a hole in paper I do it better than most, but when the target is shooting back it could take more than 10 shots to get 2 or 3 solid hits, especially when there's more than one target or if I'm already hit. Also, when it comes to recoil the M&P40 has snappier recoil than the M&P45, one of the reasons you switched IIRC, and the span of my hand is wider than most at 9 3/4" so you were just wasting keystrokes there too.



It's really great that you're confident in your current caliber (even though it isn't your first choice) but if you're going to take a shot at someone else's choice you should expect them to shoot back (figuratively of course).
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Old April 1st, 2010, 01:24 PM   #37
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Hey, I woke you guys up didn't I. Did you miss the whistling smiley.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 01:58 PM   #38
 
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The most effective round is the one that you can shoot best and are most comfortable with.
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Old April 1st, 2010, 02:11 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by TOF' post='250611' date='Apr 1 2010, 01:24 PM
Hey, I woke you guys up didn't I.
I thought we had lost you to Obamacare or some other non-sense.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 04:41 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobMoore' post='246745' date='Mar 11 2010, 10:23 PM
Given the same hours of training, a police recruit will most likely be more proficient with the 9mm than with the .357SIG, .40, or .45




That is the issue, training. There is an idea and movement here in OH that OPOTA (Ohio Peace Officer training) to "dumb down" some of the requalification requirements to only having to fire 25 rounds/ and then only doing that once a year instead of the 50 rounds twice a year which in my eyes is woefully inadequate. I have some good friends who are LEO firearm/range trainers and they just shake their heads. They say there are many reasons for this (change) and the biggie is cost. Imagine what a wrongful death suit will cost them? I'm am an instructor and licensee and practice at least 1 time a month and usually 1 time a week. I have less a standard than a "professional" officer would/should have but yet shoot nearly 500 times as much.



It's all about practice and not just burning rounds but PRACTICE. If I make a mistake it will not be from lack of practice.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 10:43 AM   #41
 
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Well their first problem is considering requalifications as training.



Training is training

Practice is practice

Qualification is Qualification



They are three separate things.



Requalification should be to certify that they are still proficient with a handgun. They can get that done with 25 rounds if they do it right. Spending an extra 25 isn't going to tell you anything if they are spent the same way as the first 25.



"Stand here, draw, use this wooden plank as support to shoot that big silhouette 25yards away with 3 rounds in 8 seconds" sounds like a typical requal.......and will tell you next to nothing about the officers ability to use their firearm in a confrontation.
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Old April 20th, 2010, 03:44 PM   #42
 
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Portland Or PD got rid of their Glcok 21s and 22s and went back to the G17 due to quite a few "kabooms" mainly with the G22s. Thats been happeing all over the country and Glocks line is that it's always the ammo which is BS! It does my heart good to see S&W becoming a leader in the LE market again!
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Old April 21st, 2010, 04:01 PM   #43
 
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I haven't heard of it happening "all over the country".



I've heard of two instances (they are both on all the gun boards), and both actually were due to ammo.
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Old April 21st, 2010, 04:41 PM   #44
 
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Hi from Chicago....My department doesn't know what to do in terms of bullet cal and we can go down that slippy slope of which is better the 9 or the 40 or the 45 but it really gets down to.....



shot placement shot placement shot placement



to all LEO's be safe
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Old April 21st, 2010, 05:52 PM   #45
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I can't find anything but .40S&W at walmart so that's why I bought a .40 S&W. Please by all means keep having your 9mm vs 45acp war because I would like to keep the .40 S&W ammo flow going. lol
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