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LEO carry ammunition

This is a discussion on LEO carry ammunition within the Law Enforcement forums, part of the Armory category; What type of ammunition to LEA's issue to officers?...


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Old November 4th, 2010, 01:51 PM   #1
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What type of ammunition to LEA's issue to officers?
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Old November 4th, 2010, 02:22 PM   #2
 
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It varies by agency. Most do a study and find what they want others get what they can and what the accountants ok. It will vary greatly. I worked for the Iowa DNR and they were using 185 grain federal hollowpoints can't remember exactly what it was and then working the SO they were using 165 grain speer gold dots. Every agency is going to be a little different in what they issue and sometimes it doesn't even seem to have any rhyme or reason to it.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 05:10 AM   #3
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What ever the lowest bidder supplies that meets the contract requirements.
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Old November 5th, 2010, 05:55 AM   #4
 
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Studies? Evaluations? Testing?





Where I'm at, it's all about the lowest bid. Not a single minute was wasted "evaluating" our ammunition. That's not to say it won't do its' job, or that it isn't any good, but people are misinformed if they believe most departments spend any effort on finding the best load. Unless, of course, by effort you mean finding the cheapest.



FWIW, we issue 180 grain .40S&W





II
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Old November 5th, 2010, 08:14 AM   #5
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Big agencies do the testing and evaluation, smaller agencies just jump on the bandwagon after the hard work is done. In 20+ years I've carried the .38spl FBI load (158gr LSWCHP), the 115gr 9mm Silvertip, the 147gr 9mm Hydrashok, the 180gr .40 S&W Gold Dot HP (current), 147gr 9mm Gold Dot, 38spl 135gr Gold Dot (current), maybe a few others in there during the 9mm/40S&W transition time I'm forgetting. Its all cyclical, whatevers the newest, hottest fad in ammo (bonded jacket hollow points currently). The Gold Dot seems to have had the longest run thus far in my experience though. Bottom line is there is no magic bullet, mulitple well placed hits is my motto, or a 12ga slug.
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Old November 6th, 2010, 07:28 AM   #6
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When I retired in 2008 my HK P7-M10 was loaded with Winchester Ranger SXT 180 gr. Prior to the SXT we issued the infamous "Winchester Black Talon".
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Old December 31st, 2010, 12:31 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdh' post='277096' date='Nov 5 2010, 06:10 AM
What ever the lowest bidder supplies that meets the contract requirements.


How true, how true!! When I was on a small-town department we carried whatever we chose. At that point it was Federal Hydra-Shok ammunition. The chief wasn't even concerned with what we carried, although I think he should have been.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 12:35 PM   #8
 
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We get ours from a local company that loads to our specifications. We also get our training ammo from them.
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Old December 31st, 2010, 10:20 PM   #9
 
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One LEO agency that I spend a lot of time with (officers are issued .40s) had been issuing 165-grain Speer silver-tipped ammo to their officers for years. However, this year they suddenly switched to Federal 180-grain HP rounds. They literally come in a plain white box that says "Federal - Law Enforcement" on it. Officers were advised they could keep their 165-grain stuff for duty loads until it all got shot up in requalifcation. Smells to me like somebody came in with a lower bid......



On another note (and I'm not implying this was the intent of the person starting this thread), I've heard some people in the CCW community discussing how important they think it is to find out what the local cops are using and use the same thing. That way, if you ever have to shoot someone, the local prosecutor won't be able to make as strong a case because you were just using the same thing the local PD uses. I'm not a cop or a lawyer, but that just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Obviously, if you are using some of that freaky "fang face" ammo that costs upwards of $3.00 a bullet (and probably won't load worth a crap in many semi-autos), you might have some explaining to do. But if you just buy the widely-available self-defense ammo in your favorite loading, I think you should be fine.



Just imagine this scene: You're a law-abiding CCW permit holder who kills someone who was threatening your life. The jury foreman says: "We would have found Mr. Jones not guilty, but since he had 180 grain Hydra-Shocks in his legally carried firearm when his local police department carries 165-grain Speer Gold Dots, we have no choice but to find him guilty of murder." Is it just me, or is this crazy? Do we gun owners overthink things at times?
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Old December 31st, 2010, 11:35 PM   #10
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I don't want to start a ammo debate/war but alot of agencies are using various ammo but for the most part the actual hollow point is a Speer 124. That being said i stopped using Speer and all those LEO brands. I only mess with Blacks Hills these days



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TATvN2c9Fe8
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Old December 31st, 2010, 11:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchpilot' post='282443' date='Dec 31 2010, 11:20 PM
One LEO agency that I spend a lot of time with (officers are issued .40s) had been issuing 165-grain Speer silver-tipped ammo to their officers for years. However, this year they suddenly switched to Federal 180-grain HP rounds. They literally come in a plain white box that says "Federal - Law Enforcement" on it. Officers were advised they could keep their 165-grain stuff for duty loads until it all got shot up in requalifcation. Smells to me like somebody came in with a lower bid......



On another note (and I'm not implying this was the intent of the person starting this thread), I've heard some people in the CCW community discussing how important they think it is to find out what the local cops are using and use the same thing. That way, if you ever have to shoot someone, the local prosecutor won't be able to make as strong a case because you were just using the same thing the local PD uses. I'm not a cop or a lawyer, but that just doesn't seem to make sense to me. Obviously, if you are using some of that freaky "fang face" ammo that costs upwards of $3.00 a bullet (and probably won't load worth a crap in many semi-autos), you might have some explaining to do. But if you just buy the widely-available self-defense ammo in your favorite loading, I think you should be fine.



Just imagine this scene: You're a law-abiding CCW permit holder who kills someone who was threatening your life. The jury foreman says: "We would have found Mr. Jones not guilty, but since he had 180 grain Hydra-Shocks in his legally carried firearm when his local police department carries 165-grain Speer Gold Dots, we have no choice but to find him guilty of murder." Is it just me, or is this crazy? Do we gun owners overthink things at times?


If we are not carrying lead free defensive ammo, we obviously does not care about the environment which will get us more years for being a mother earth hater. Watch out for green judges; they will put us away forever in an earth friendly cell while feeding us wheat germ and oat bran. They might go easy if the dead thug were composted prior to trial.
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Old January 1st, 2011, 08:33 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deaheat' post='282450' date='Jan 1 2011, 03:35 AM
I don't want to start a ammo debate/war but alot of agencies are using various ammo but for the most part the actual hollow point is a Speer 124. That being said i stopped using Speer and all those LEO brands. I only mess with Blacks Hills these days



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TATvN2c9Fe8


Astonishing. I bet they get those custom made for all the different calibers too... I might try to get some of those to fit in my shotgun and in my .45, maybe even the AR.



On a serious note, I would venture that it runs off price most of the time. I was issued a box of Speer GD 155 JHP's for my duty gun.
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 04:37 PM   #13
 
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My Dept. in NJ issues Remington Golden Saber 230 grain.



Sidearm for Patrol/DB/Traffic is the HK USP .45 cal.





-Tom
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Old January 23rd, 2011, 08:17 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mitchpilot' post='282443' date='Jan 1 2011, 02:20 AM
...

Just imagine this scene: You're a law-abiding CCW permit holder who kills someone who was threatening your life. The jury foreman says: "We would have found Mr. Jones not guilty, but since he had 180 grain Hydra-Shocks in his legally carried firearm when his local police department carries 165-grain Speer Gold Dots, we have no choice but to find him guilty of murder." Is it just me, or is this crazy? Do we gun owners overthink things at times?


Ever heard of Harold Fish? Justified self-defense shooting with a 10mm. Prosecutor argued that his weapon was too powerful. He was convicted and sentenced to 10 years for 2nd degree murder, although it has since been overturned.

http://www.haroldfishdefense.org/welcome.htm

http://concealedcarryforum.com/forum/topic...?TOPIC_ID=14699



There was more to it than that, but it was a key element.
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Old April 27th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #15
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MY AGENCY DID AN EXTENSIVE TEST ON CARRY AMMO AND ENDED UP WITH THE WINCHESTER Ranger 230gr. Did another test when we transitioned to the M&P and we adopted the Winchester Ranger 230gr +P
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