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I'm seriously considering......

This is a discussion on I'm seriously considering...... within the Law Enforcement forums, part of the Armory category; We did an ammo test at our agency several months ago. 147gr 9mm Gold Dot did just as well as 230gr 45 Gold Dot at ...


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Old July 6th, 2011, 02:32 PM   #16
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We did an ammo test at our agency several months ago. 147gr 9mm Gold Dot did just as well as 230gr 45 Gold Dot at windshild glass penetration. Pretty much any handgun round WILL deform through safety glass, but any bonded round should maintain enough mass to still be lethal on the other side. Having said that, I would LOVE to carry a 9mm M&P on duty, but alas, we're stuck with agency issue only.
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Old July 6th, 2011, 03:05 PM   #17
 
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I'd see no reason to NOT carry 9mm. I carry a M&P45 at work and my LC9 as back up.



230 grain Gold Dots in the M&P.

124 grain Gold Dots in the Ruger.



Happy as a pig in shit.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 07:25 PM   #18
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Well, Here's an update.



I don't think I'm going to the 9mm for duty. It makes a great off duty, but I think the .40 is probably a bit better with giving up only two rounds.



I'm headed to the shop tomorrow to handle an M&P 40 and a 45 Mid Size.





One of those will be my next duty gun. I'm leaning towards the .40 for it's extra 5 rounds and nearly same effectiveness in ballistics.
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Old August 17th, 2011, 09:38 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ANGEL KING View Post
I'm leaning towards the .40 for it's extra 5 rounds and nearly same effectiveness in ballistics.


We've made that same choice, 6 times now (soon to be 7), and couldn't be happier.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 11:46 AM   #20
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What made you change your mind on the .40? I know from shooting my uncles p226 in .40 that the difference in recoil between that and the 9 were unnoticeable to me. I am still waiting to experience the snappy recoil of the .40. Maybe I just need more experience on different platforms in that round. Happy Shooting! -Dirvo-
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Old August 18th, 2011, 11:28 PM   #21
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The thing that made me change my mind about the .40 was that no matter how I feel about it, I can't deny the fact that it has nearly the same performance as my .45 while being available in a 9mm size gun, along with twice the number of rounds of my P220.



It's the best of both worlds when it comes to capacity and stopping power. It gives up only 2 rounds to the nine. I carry an M&P9C every day off duty, but just didn't feel comfortable enough with the 9mm's tactical penetration in a patrol environment.



The .40 is not too bad to shoot, but it is snappier than the slower push of the .45 I had shot for a long time.



No matter what you shoot, you get used to it and comfortable after a few sessions. All these rounds create a lot of damage in humans. I'm fine with a 9mm for home defense and off duty. It's plenty good enough.



BTW, I bought the M&P 40 today, along with a holster and about to order the Apex tactical parts for the trigger. The trigger is horrible stock.
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Old August 18th, 2011, 11:48 PM   #22
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BTW, I bought the M&P 40 today, along with a holster and about to order the Apex tactical parts for the trigger. The trigger is horrible stock.
Congratulations Angel King! You got yourself one fine duty pistol. I think that after shooting the M&P .40 that you'll find that "snappy" recoil to be a non-issue! I know that looking back on my purchases that I wished I would've gone with .40 instead of 9mm. I'm pretty committed to 9mm but who says you can't have more? Stay safe out there! Happy Shooting! -Dirvo-



P.S. If you ever pull me over I would like a hall pass. I live in Washington but it could happen :-)
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Old August 19th, 2011, 12:24 AM   #23
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Haha, I'm sure you have room for one more .40 smith in your house. No?





And yes, you definitely have a hall pass in California.
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Old September 2nd, 2011, 05:31 PM   #24
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So, since I have a new platform and have to be proficient with it by Sunday night, I've been at the range for the last two days.



I put 170 rounds through it. Here are my observations compared to my beloved P220.



1)Twice as many rounds

2)Same trigger pull every time (Apex tactical installed).

3)Lighter overall gun/Magazines/ammo.

4)Less recoil.

5)Just as reliable as the Sig.

6)Great looking gun, equal to my beautiful 220 IMO.



I think I made a good decision to change.



I'm not sure if the trigger assembly and the firing pin will be as durable as the Glock, but I figure it can't be too bad if so many agencies are converting to it. Time will tell, but for now, it's perfect.
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Old October 28th, 2011, 12:33 AM   #25
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In reference to the original poster's justification for switching to 9mm.



I love it how people who are trying to justify a 9mm over a .45ACP always seem to use the lame

argument that shot placement is more important than caliber.

As if shot placement and .45acp is somehow mutually exclusive.

When I took an advanced pistol class as part of my former armed guard job, I was one of the most

accurate shots in the class using a .45acp Glock21. Double stack .45acp firearms such as a Glock21

or M&P45 have plenty of magazine firepower. The recoil on a Glock21 is not bad at all

and I'm sure it's even more manageable on an M&P45 due to the better ergonomics and better

situated bore axis. So if you wanna switch to 9mm, go for it.

But please don't try to use excuses that don't hold water. I'm just saying!
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Old October 28th, 2011, 02:21 AM   #26
 
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Originally Posted by andyb View Post
In reference to the original poster's justification for switching to 9mm.



I love it how people who are trying to justify a 9mm over a .45ACP always seem to use the lame

argument that shot placement is more important than caliber.

As if shot placement and .45acp is somehow mutually exclusive.

When I took an advanced pistol class as part of my former armed guard job, I was one of the most

accurate shots in the class using a .45acp Glock21. Double stack .45acp firearms such as a Glock21

or M&P45 have plenty of magazine firepower. The recoil on a Glock21 is not bad at all

and I'm sure it's even more manageable on an M&P45 due to the better ergonomics and better

situated bore axis. So if you wanna switch to 9mm, go for it.

But please don't try to use excuses that don't hold water. I'm just saying!


Excuses? It's not the first shot they're speaking of with shot placement it's follow up shots. I'd like to meet the person that has quicker and better placed follow up shots with a .45 compared to a 9mm. Haven't met that person in 33 years and don't expect to anytime soon. For the OP the 9mm round you were looking for was the bonded rounds from Winchester and Federal, if you were looking for obstacle penetration. I carry a .45 on duty, a Sig P220 not by choice, and I am more than proficient with it. As good as I am with my .45 I'm better with my 9mm. The first shot means nothing if you don't put the bad guy down with it, and the FBI stats show the first shot just doesn't cut it. I love .45's and 9's, own both carry both, and each has it's upside and downside. Having said that my carry guns are 9mm/.357, my duty guns/home defense guns are .45. I don't conceal carry spare mags so that's one reason I prefer 9mm for off duty use as I want as many rounds as I can get.



SHTF scenario and I only have one shot to end it all, I'll take a .357magnum all day long over pretty much everything else.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 12:51 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyb View Post
In reference to the original poster's justification for switching to 9mm.



I love it how people who are trying to justify a 9mm over a .45ACP always seem to use the lame

argument that shot placement is more important than caliber.

As if shot placement and .45acp is somehow mutually exclusive.

When I took an advanced pistol class as part of my former armed guard job, I was one of the most

accurate shots in the class using a .45acp Glock21. Double stack .45acp firearms such as a Glock21

or M&P45 have plenty of magazine firepower. The recoil on a Glock21 is not bad at all

and I'm sure it's even more manageable on an M&P45 due to the better ergonomics and better

situated bore axis. So if you wanna switch to 9mm, go for it.

But please don't try to use excuses that don't hold water. I'm just saying!


I'm glad you were one of the most accurate in your former armed guard class, but try shooting your 45 one handed running after a bad guy who is also running and pointing a gun at you. It's not the same as in the well lit calm range. It'll be a better day to connect with one .22 round than to miss with a bunch of 45's. Shot placement is defintely important with any police handgun calibers. But, some calibers are just easier to make hits with than others. If you are good with making hits with a 45, you will be faster with a 40 and 9mm. It's just physics.



To each his own though. No justifications necessary.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 03:06 PM   #28
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I see no difference in first round caliber related accuracy potential when shooting one or two handed with any of the three calibers. If your first shot is accurate the second won't matter. If you can't hit with the first while running your chances of hitting with the second go down considerably with any caliber.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 03:32 PM   #29
 
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I see no difference in first round caliber related accuracy potential when shooting one or two handed with any of the three calibers. If your first shot is accurate the second won't matter. If you can't hit with the first while running your chances of hitting with the second go down considerably with any caliber.


Thats a lot of trust in accuracy while on the run for one shot during a high pressure situation.



The better way to look at it is a decreasing shotgun pattern. Each smaller caliber shrinking the spread of the blast.
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Old November 13th, 2011, 04:54 PM   #30
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Thats a lot of trust in accuracy while on the run for one shot during a high pressure situation.



The better way to look at it is a decreasing shotgun pattern. Each smaller caliber shrinking the spread of the blast.


I don't believe I indicated any trust in accuracy on the run. If you want to hit at least slow to a walk. If you just want to scare keep running and it doesn't matter what caliber you miss with.



This reminds me of the old westerns where the guys on horse back threw the gun forward and down while pulling the trigger. Of course they had unlimited round count also.



Im outa here kids.
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