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I'm seriously considering......

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Old May 27th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #1
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Switching from a 45acp to a 9mm. There are a few reasons for this. What really broke the camel's back was today, after my active shooter class and getting into several very realistic simunition shoothouts, I again realized controlability and shot placement are more imporatant than absolute one shot stopping power.



One particular scenario called for a precision headshot on the move which was delivered by two quick succession rounds to the forehead of the poor 'actor bad guy'. Now I do realize this is sims, but the same is easily possible with the nimble 9mm. With a 230gr. 45 +P's recoil, I just don't think I can do it.



The hardest part is that I love my Sig 220. It has saved my arse a couple times on the street.





What do you think. Loyalty to a reliable overweight partner, or switch to a new slim 18 rnd 9mm?





I have carried and hate the .40 so none of that talk please.



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Old May 27th, 2011, 08:13 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by ANGEL KING View Post
Switching from a 45acp to a 9mm. There are a few reasons for this. What really broke the camel's back was today, after my active shooter class and getting into several very realistic simunition shoothouts, I again realized controlability and shot placement are more imporatant than absolute one shot stopping power.



One particular scenario called for a precision headshot on the move which was delivered by two quick succession rounds to the forehead of the poor 'actor bad guy'. Now I do realize this is sims, but the same is easily possible with the nimble 9mm. With a 230gr. 45 +P's recoil, I just don't think I can do it.



The hardest part is that I love my Sig 220. It has saved my arse a couple times on the street.





What do you think. Loyalty to a reliable overweight partner, or switch to a new slim 18 rnd 9mm?





I have carried and hate the .40 so none of that talk please.





With today's modern ammo, I see no reason NOT to carry a 9mm, and many reasons to carry one.



Shot placement and capacity over-rule all other arguments.



JW
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Old May 27th, 2011, 09:27 PM   #3
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Now I've just got to get over bing sentimental towards the Sig.





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Old May 27th, 2011, 09:33 PM   #4
 
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My first duty weapon was a Sig P226 9mm. I liked the gun. I have since carried a .45 by either H&K or Glock. Before we started looking into the M&P's to replace our H&k's I asked if I could carry my own G-17. The response from the admin was an abrupt NO! I'd carry a 9mm any day of the week with 124gr +P gold-dots over my .45.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 12:34 AM   #5
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Yah, and I'm not worried at all about one shot stopping power. That kind of stuff occupied my mind a long time ago when I was a new deputy. Handgun stopping power means shooting again and again and repeating until the threat is down or you're out of ammo. Then you about face and run away.



To use the words of a SEAL instructor. "It may be a 9, but you won't know the difference when I shoot you once in the head and twice through the heart". And and amazing 18 rounds to get it right instead of my current nine rounds.



But, I am a bit concerned about obsticle penetration for police duty use. No doubt our 147gr. standard pressure HST's will NOT defeat obsticles such as car window, house walls etc.. as well as my current 230gr. +P version.



However, I don't feel this is enough to dissuade me from using the 9mm.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 08:57 AM   #6
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To use the words of a SEAL instructor. "It may be a 9, but you won't know the difference when I shoot you once in the head and twice through the heart". And and amazing 18 rounds to get it right instead of my current nine rounds.



But, I am a bit concerned about obsticle penetration




...and if you keep pounding in the same place you WILL get penetration.
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Old May 28th, 2011, 11:23 AM   #7
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LOL, I didn't think about that.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 05:31 PM   #8
 
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While I like my 165 grain .40 HST for barrier penetration, I'd prefer the higher magazine capacity and reduced recoil of the 9mm.



I'm sure you've read the horror stories about SigSauer quality control in the past few years. We haven't had a lot of problems with our pistols, but if I were selecting a new weapon, I'd probably have to opt for an M&P.



Good luck with your decision.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 07:38 PM   #9
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Is there any reason you couldn't keep the Sig in the patrol car in case you need it and carry the 9mm? I don't know anything about police practices but I was just thinking, if you need the stopping power for say a high speed chase that you need to put an end to, couldn't you have the .45 with you but not on you? It would seem to me (and I could be completely and ignorantly wrong) that if you need the extra punch, you will probably have a little time to prepare or make adjustments...
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:04 PM   #10
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Is there any reason you couldn't keep the Sig in the patrol car in case you need it and carry the 9mm? I don't know anything about police practices but I was just thinking, if you need the stopping power for say a high speed chase that you need to put an end to, couldn't you have the .45 with you but not on you? It would seem to me (and I could be completely and ignorantly wrong) that if you need the extra punch, you will probably have a little time to prepare or make adjustments...


Thanks for the reply. Couple of things though. Our policy prohibits shooting at fleeing vehicles. And if I had the time to opt for the higher stopping power of a .45, I'd probably grab my Remington 870 with the slugs in it.



But as far as having a .45 in the car, I havn't heard anything prohibiting it. But I'm sure they'll burn you if you ever used it instead of qualified to carry on belt gun or issued SG/rifle.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 10:06 PM   #11
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While I like my 165 grain .40 HST for barrier penetration, I'd prefer the higher magazine capacity and reduced recoil of the 9mm.



I'm sure you've read the horror stories about SigSauer quality control in the past few years. We haven't had a lot of problems with our pistols, but if I were selecting a new weapon, I'd probably have to opt for an M&P.



Good luck with your decision.


Yah, the only thing keeping me from a 9 is the barrier penetration. Eventhough I'm not a fan of the .40, I do have to admit it fill a nice gab between capacity and performance.



I'm looking into the M&P 40 to replace my 220R. Havn't completely ruled out the 9mm. Our 147gr. HST's do well enough.
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Old May 31st, 2011, 11:46 PM   #12
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Thanks for the reply. Couple of things though. Our policy prohibits shooting at fleeing vehicles. And if I had the time to opt for the higher stopping power of a .45, I'd probably grab my Remington 870 with the slugs in it.



But as far as having a .45 in the car, I havn't heard anything prohibiting it. But I'm sure they'll burn you if you ever used it instead of qualified to carry on belt gun or issued SG/rifle.




Good point, I forget how much CYA Law Enforcement has to take into consideration. Knowing that if you swat a fly on duty someone out there is bound to bring charges against you in order to get a payday by screaming insect cruelty or something just as idiotic.
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 03:30 AM   #13
 
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If you want to test penatration why not call your local Federal ammo sales people and ask them to demonstrate for your department?

If your department wont go for it. Then talk to your firearm instructor, maybe they will get it for you.

I don't have the option of a 9mm. We carry 40. 165HST to be exact. It fits our needs.
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 06:13 PM   #14
 
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9mm is just fine. If you've been in law enforcement in a major city for any length of time, you've probably seen folks killed with all calibers of firearms. I know I have.
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Old June 10th, 2011, 09:27 PM   #15
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ANGEL KING View Post
Switching from a 45acp to a 9mm. There are a few reasons for this. What really broke the camel's back was today, after my active shooter class and getting into several very realistic simunition shoothouts, I again realized controlability and shot placement are more imporatant than absolute one shot stopping power.



One particular scenario called for a precision headshot on the move which was delivered by two quick succession rounds to the forehead of the poor 'actor bad guy'. Now I do realize this is sims, but the same is easily possible with the nimble 9mm. With a 230gr. 45 +P's recoil, I just don't think I can do it.



The hardest part is that I love my Sig 220. It has saved my arse a couple times on the street.





What do you think. Loyalty to a reliable overweight partner, or switch to a new slim 18 rnd 9mm?





I have carried and hate the .40 so none of that talk please.







Nothing wrong with carrying 9mm at all. You give up some bullet mass, but if you shoot it with more confidence you more than make up that.
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