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Good LEO Stop Of A OC'er

This is a discussion on Good LEO Stop Of A OC'er within the Law Enforcement forums, part of the Armory category; I'll tell on myself a little bit. when I was new to Law Enforcement and someone told me they had a gun, or as is ...


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Old July 23rd, 2011, 08:51 AM   #16
 
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I'll tell on myself a little bit. when I was new to Law Enforcement and someone told me they had a gun, or as is common here, threw a gun up on the dash when I stopped the car (Open Carry is legal in NC and we have a good CCW law) I would do stupid stuff, ask for the gun, empty it, etc. If the owner didn't comply I could get a litle huffy puffy. I had a CCW owner very politly suggest I read the laws, it fixed a lot of my ignorance on the laws of this state. After some further training it also became painfully clear that keeping the gun in the CCW holders holster is also much safer than asking for it. Several years later I get to train guys who think they can grab guns and seize guns from CCW holders and legal OC holders and correct their misconceptions on the law. I'm very thankful for a calm, polite and informative CCW holder that fixed the ignorance of a young cop and that enough of us have addressed the issue that is now dealt with during our yearly legal update requirements that our particular department is more educated and better trained than it had been. Reaching off balance to grab a weapon is not a smart thing to do, but if OC CA allows officers to do so then all the power to them. I know certain small towns here that the residents and some officers still over react to open carry. Either way, each states laws are different and can be overly complex. Im glad I dont live in Mass or CA, you guys have some strict laws.
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Old July 23rd, 2011, 12:38 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by KRWeiss View Post
I can't get past the erroneous concept of a "Good LEO Stop Of A OC'er". How is it a good when a law abiding citizen is stopped without cause.


I agree , it may be legal to stop and question the person but it isn't right and shows the gov't bias against gun owners.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 06:54 PM   #18
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The only problem I have is lack of identification. Many people are prohibited from owning or carrying any firearms in any condition. This could be a condition of thier parole, probation, domestic violence conviction, 5150 holds or restraining orders etc.... So the open carry law is not a right for everyone. I feel the officer handled it very well, except I would have tried a bit harder to ID 'Jeremy' to at least make sure he did not fall into one of the above scenarios. I'd then send him on his way with no further action. It would be reasonable to me.
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Old August 10th, 2011, 10:40 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by ANGEL KING View Post
I would have tried a bit harder to ID 'Jeremy'
Sure, he's not innocent until proven innocent. Why stop at his second amendment rights when you could go for his first amendment too. Maybe you can see his wallet, he probably has ID in there. Why would he say he didn't have ID when he actually does? So just throw in a search to take care of that pesky fourth amendment, too? What if he resists all this attention... would it be unreasonable to skip all the formalities and go right into the "Rough and Cuff" scenario?
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Old August 11th, 2011, 03:43 AM   #20
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I think the officer handled himself in a very professional manner. As for the reason for the stop, it was hard to make out at the beginning of the recording, but I thought I heard the cop say somthing to the effect that they got a report of a person with a gun (I could be wrong, laptop speakers are not the best).



I will admit I was a little purturbed by the citizens lack of cooperation when it came to giving a name. Yes he has the right not to give is name or show ID however the officer was being professional. Now maybe I am dense, but I do not see the harm in just giving a name. I look at it as setting up a good rapor with the officer. Yes we have some bad cops in this country, but not all cops are out to get civilians and IMO any effort to foster a positive relation with the police especially an officer of this caliber (no pun intended) is a good one.
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Old August 11th, 2011, 02:08 PM   #21
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These open carry topics, especially in gun forums usually produce a lot of emotions and sometimes anti law enforcement comments, so I stay clear of them. Since I got involved in this one, I'll reply again.



An example every parrent can relate to and one that could parallel the identification of Jeremy in the video:



You see a suspicous man who has been hanging around the local park next to your child's school. Several other parrents and teachers have also noticed him and they call the police. Now, would you as a concerned citizen want your law enforcement to do thier very best to identify this man to make sure he is not a child predator with a criminal child molestation history? Is he prohibited from being within a 100 yards of that park and children? On face value, he is just a guy excersizing his freedom to hang out at the local park.



I would hope the cops do thier best to identify this man.



That's what I'm saying about the open carry topic. Don't violate civil rights, but do your best to identify the OC'er. As a service to the public you're there to protect. This does not include using force to ID him. Any good cop knows that there is the time for harshness and times when you catch more flys with honey than vinegar.



Otherwise, everybody could excersize thier first amendment right to freedom of speech and yell bomb on an airliner without getting kicked off and questioned.



One person's freedom is not without limitations when it infringes on the freedom of the masses to feel safe and live in peace.
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Old August 11th, 2011, 02:29 PM   #22
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I agree with you somewhat, but I hope you see the distinction between yelling "Bomb" on an aircraft and carrying openly around town. The former is not a right.
 
Old August 11th, 2011, 05:20 PM   #23
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That is absolutely right Baralko, no one has the right to yell bomb on a plane full of people. It was merely my attempt to use an extreme example for the limitations that can be imposed by society on the freedom of speech. One poster previously cited the first amendment in his post, so I thought it fitting to use it for mine in response.



The 'bomb' example did not have a direct corrolation to open carry. I used it to show that our civil rights can't infringe on other people's rights in some situations. And the rights of the many should logically outweigh the rights of the individual in most circumbstances.



As far as OC'ers go in CA, knock yourselves out. Law enforcement is well trained regarding open carry and to expect it as a possibility when responding to calls of "Man with a gun". Other than being stopped periodically and your gun checked, due to concerned citizens calling the police on you, there will never be any action taken against you.



CA is to blame in my oppinion. This state is horribly anti gun and it's people are conditioned by the state's regulations to fear guns and call the police in any situation.
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Old October 13th, 2011, 12:24 PM   #24
 
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Here in Utah a guy went to the local mall with a pistol on his leg and he carried an AR-15. he was just walking around the mall parking lot, the public didnt like this and called the cops(which I think was a good idea) and them came and talked to him, he didnt fight or argue with the cops. utah is an OC state(I think you need two actions b4 the bullet can be fired... rack/saftey...load/rack to open carry here) so he only got "disorderly conduct" which is the cops go to charge
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Old October 14th, 2011, 12:16 PM   #25
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I can't speak for Utah law, but in California, I would have a hard time charging someone with disturbing the peace by open carry. Does it disturb the peace of the citizens around. Absolutely. But it's a conflict of interest because they are legally justified in doing it (OC). So, no crime in my oppinion. Here at least.



However, I recently heard that due to the OC movement and their attempts to 'set up' law enforcement, there are legislative measures proposed to illegalize open carry in CA. Presumably making the carrying of even an unloaded gun in a holster a misdemeanor.





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Old October 14th, 2011, 01:03 PM   #26
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... they are legally justified in doing it (OC).



However, I recently heard that due to the OC movement and their attempts to 'set up' law enforcement, there are legislative measures proposed to illegalize open carry in CA. Presumably making the carrying of even an unloaded gun in a holster a misdemeanor.


It (unloaded open carry) is now illegal. Brown signed AB144 on Monday.



Edited to say that, officially speaking, AB144 doesn't make open carry illegal until 1 January 2012.
 
Old October 14th, 2011, 01:18 PM   #27
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The voters in Kalifornia knew what Brown was/is and voted him in anyway along with the other idiots like Pelosi and friends so you will just have to live with it or move.
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Old October 14th, 2011, 03:42 PM   #28
 
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I think that the Officer in the OP did a good job given where he is and the laws he is charged with enforcing.



I also think Crapifornia needs to brake away from the union and sink in to the sea already!



They have some of the stupidest laws I have ever read. And many of there laws, put in place to "Make things safer" in fact do the opposite.



Example: car speed limit 65mph, truck speed limit 55mph. Study after study shows split speed limits increase traffic accidents involving Semi trucks. Yet they refuse to change the law.



I now refuse to deliver any load to that state without a surcharge. On the rare occasion I do, I charge $1,000 extra to cross in to that state. And the people that live there wonder why every thing costs so much more there!



I get that $1,000 California fee 2-4 times a year! And I'm not the only one. I know several drivers that charge $500-$2,000 just to cross in to CA.



The last company I worked for had a $200 surcharge for NYC and a $300 Surcharge for the state of California!
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Old October 14th, 2011, 04:31 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by bralko85 View Post
It (unloaded open carry) is now illegal. Brown signed AB144 on Monday.



Edited to say that, officially speaking, AB144 doesn't make open carry illegal until 1 January 2012.




Thanks for the information.
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Old December 26th, 2011, 11:52 AM   #30
 
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If he walked two blocks to his wife's house, where he couldn't be because of a protection order, which would have showed had he been run when openly carrying a gun moments earlier, and shot and killed her, his kid, then himself, the cop would look like the biggest POS on earth. And of course, he would have to deal with the aftermath, the nightmares about the incident, the questioning of himself about what he could have done different, what he should have done different. Bah, what am I saying, he's a POS cop, he don't have the right to know Crap.



After 14 years on the job....it's a crappy profession and should be avoided at all costs. You have the small percentage that love the job and small victories too much to walk away, and the larger percentage that could not go do anything else.
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