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Good LEO Stop Of A OC'er

This is a discussion on Good LEO Stop Of A OC'er within the Law Enforcement forums, part of the Armory category; The officer was VERY professional and courteous. Remember we, as LEO's, are out to serve the public. When the public drives past and sees a ...


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Old January 19th, 2012, 06:19 PM   #31
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The officer was VERY professional and courteous. Remember we, as LEO's, are out to serve the public. When the public drives past and sees a man standing around with a gun they are going to call, guarantee it!! The officer is dispatched to the complaint. Once there he or I am required to investigate the complaint for any criminal activity. My only complaint is all these amateur you tube videos being made where individuals INTENTIONALLY draw attention to themselves and then hope the police react negatively so they can do their best Alex Jones "Police State" rants. This officer is the kind I love to work with.
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Old January 19th, 2012, 08:11 PM   #32
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The officer is dispatched to the complaint. Once there he or I am required to investigate the complaint for any criminal activity.
I have never, ever been stopped and asked for ID while calmly participating in any legal activity, including the frequent open carry of a firearm. A friend of mine works in the 911 call center (he almost always carries a Glock 19), during a related conversation he commented that every once in a while someone will call in to report a man with a gun, he asks if the person is speaking or acting in a threatening manner (and a few other questions I'm sure), if not he informs the caller that owning and carrying a firearm is not in itself a violation and asks again if they are being threatened.



In many states carrying a firearm is completely legal, our public servants and most of the citizens are respectful of that. A couple/few years ago I stopped by a donut shop in town and was speaking with a couple police officers (I know, how cliche'), without really thinking about it I hooked my thumb on the beaver tail of my M&P in an effort to stretch my back a little. One of the officers reacted by stepping back a few inches and placing her hand on the grip of her firearm while the other cautioned her with a hand gesture, I apologized for upsetting her and continued on with my day.



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My only complaint is all these amateur you tube videos being made...
Sounds like the more respect state and local government has for the second amendment, the less problem you'll have with the first.
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Old April 28th, 2012, 08:34 AM   #33
 
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I also live in an OPEN CARRY state, however because he had reason to be there you area allowed to ID he and I would have detained him until I cleared up who he was and made sure he was clean.
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Old April 29th, 2012, 04:04 PM   #34
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I also live in an OPEN CARRY state, however because he had reason to be there you area allowed to ID he and I would have detained him until I cleared up who he was and made sure he was clean.
Is that what you meant to say?
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Old May 1st, 2012, 09:22 PM   #35
 
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Is that what you meant to say?
would you just let him go on his way? you are called there on an incident and you have the right to be there and to id him and all parties involved. No i would not let him go until he was identified.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 06:39 AM   #36
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would you just let him go on his way? you are called there on an incident and you have the right to be there and to id him and all parties involved. No i would not let him go until he was identified.
Since there is no evidence that any laws were broken, are being broken, or are about to be broken, then yes I would "let him go".

I would ask for a chapter and verse on an officer's "right" to detain and demand ID from law-abiding citizens who are not suspected of anything unlawful, nor are they participating in any suspicious activities... but since we both know that right doesn't exist, this would most likely end in someone usurping ungranted authority (again).



P.S. As has been requested previously in this thread, I'm just asking for this codified "right" to demand ID you guys keep talking about. Amateur "legal opinions" aren't worth the paper they're printed on.



P.P.S. I've worked both sides of this issue as a research assistant for a San Diego, Ca. Superior Court Justice, this particular subject is not exactly new to me.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 02:03 PM   #37
 
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Since there is no evidence that any laws were broken, are being broken, or are about to be broken, then yes I would "let him go".

I would ask for a chapter and verse on an officer's "right" to detain and demand ID from law-abiding citizens who are not suspected of anything unlawful, nor are they participating in any suspicious activities... but since we both know that right doesn't exist, this would most likely end in someone usurping ungranted authority (again).



P.S. As has been requested previously in this thread, I'm just asking for this codified "right" to demand ID you guys keep talking about. Amateur "legal opinions" aren't worth the paper they're printed on.



P.P.S. I've worked both sides of this issue as a research assistant for a San Diego, Ca. Superior Court Justice, this particular subject is not exactly new to me.
First of all it is my understanding that he is there on a call. No matter the call I a police officer in pa not cali. Have the right to and will identify everyone on scene. I am off today but will be happy to get the exact wordage for you. New Mexico is tehe same way. My buddy if an driver there And iftheu refuse yes I would detain him until I find out who he is.
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Old May 2nd, 2012, 09:36 PM   #38
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Sorry bud, not talking about PA or NM, this story is about CA law. Nevertheless, I would like to hear what you think is your "right" in PA to demand ID and detain a citizen if he/she refuses to acquiesce to your demands.



BTW; In NM you can be charged with a felony for this, in PA you cannot, so obviously the laws vary from state to state.



SCOTUS 1984: the "officer may ask the detainee a moderate number of questions to determine his identity and to try to obtain information confirming or dispelling the officer's suspicions. But the detainee is not obliged to respond."



Nothing has happened to change California's "Stop and Identify" law since 1984, although Nevada had the Hiibel case in 2004.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 05:44 AM   #39
 
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Well god bless pa, like is said before as long as you are there on a call everyone gets detailed and identified. It's an investagatory detention. And if they refuse to give is detain then or arrest them for refusing to follow a direct order. Let them sit in the station until the get smart enough to realize that its for everyone's protection. I guess your better staying in cali. I have never run into the problem because people know the consequences for their actions.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 07:41 AM   #40
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Well god bless pa, like is said before as long as you are there on a call everyone gets detailed and identified. It's an investagatory detention. And if they refuse to give is detain then or arrest them for refusing to follow a direct order. Let them sit in the station until the get smart enough to realize that its for everyone's protection. I guess your better staying in cali. I have never run into the problem because people know the consequences for their actions.


I suppose the "Consequence" of resisting the "Big Bad Cop" is to get roughed up then thrown in jail. Am I correct?

Perhaps God will one day realy bless PA and and rough up a few Jackbooted PA Bully Cop's and their masters.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 12:24 PM   #41
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So there's no reference, just your word against the supreme court? I think TOF has it figured out.



P.S. I'm no longer in Cali. I live in a state where civilians can go anywhere they want (except federal buildings and the jail) and not be disarmed.
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Old May 3rd, 2012, 04:54 PM   #42
 
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I suppose the "Consequence" of resisting the "Big Bad Cop" is to get roughed up then thrown in jail. Am I correct?

Perhaps God will one day realy bless PA and and rough up a few Jackbooted PA Bully Cop's and their masters.




actually no you are not you corrct at all. You are just jumping to conclusions but thats cool. Its clear who is a cop in the LEO board and who is not. And God blesses me daily.
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Old May 15th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #43
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Now this is interesting because police do not have the right to detain or demand if in pa without ras and openly carrying a firearm is not enough ras to stop and detain anyone...



Further more plenty of depts have been sued, most recently phila pd, allentown, pd a few years ago and other for simply detaining law abiding citizens with due cause.



You will catch the right one and you will find your self in court before your shift is over. Those open carry guys are ready and willing to exhaust all that's needed to make a point and residents of pa do not like their gun rights violated in anyway.



So now you show me a law that says you can stop and detain a person who is openly carrying a firearm in pa with the exception of phila where it's needed to open or conceal carry but the rest of pa a license is not needed and any officer who tires to charge any man or woman with disorderly conduct for open carrying with end up being sued...





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Originally Posted by knight104 View Post
Well god bless pa, like is said before as long as you are there on a call everyone gets detailed and identified. It's an investagatory detention. And if they refuse to give is detain then or arrest them for refusing to follow a direct order. Let them sit in the station until the get smart enough to realize that its for everyone's protection. I guess your better staying in cali. I have never run into the problem because people know the consequences for their actions.
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Old July 4th, 2012, 03:14 AM   #44
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The only problem I have is lack of identification. Many people are prohibited from owning or carrying any firearms in any condition. This could be a condition of thier parole, probation, domestic violence conviction, 5150 holds or restraining orders etc.... So the open carry law is not a right for everyone. I feel the officer handled it very well, except I would have tried a bit harder to ID 'Jeremy' to at least make sure he did not fall into one of the above scenarios. I'd then send him on his way with no further action. It would be reasonable to me.
My point exactly... Here in Michigan you have to be 21 to carry a handgun OC or CCW. Of course you have to have a CPL license for carrying concealed.

Anyway how else would a LEO verify your age if he/she did not ask for ID?

As for carrying without a mag... You must be crazy..

No way in hell I'd strap a firearm to me without a mag in it especially in an OC scenario. All the bad guys know you don't have a mag in so you get popped first and you're as soft a target as anyone else... No thanks man..
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