Fiocchi 9mm EMB Ammo

This is a discussion on Fiocchi 9mm EMB Ammo within the MP Ammunition forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Managed to get my hands on 500 rounds of Fiocchi EMB which is extremely hard to find. It is a 92grn 9mm bullet with what ...


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Old August 8th, 2010, 10:50 AM   #1
 
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Managed to get my hands on 500 rounds of Fiocchi EMB which is extremely hard to find. It is a 92grn 9mm bullet with what is referred to as the Expansion Mono Block design. It is similar to the old Hirtenberger 100grn 9mm +P+ bullet designed for submachine guns. My primary concern was whether it would cycle all my 9mm guns (M&Pc, Walther P99, P99c, HK P7M13, M8 and PSP), it did and without a single issue with any of the guns listed. This ammo is designed to go thru glass, sheet metal, wood, etc but not expand unless it hits a human or similar target. This ammo has been in use by quite a few European Police Agencies and now Fiocchi bought Hirtenberger out, redesigned the round and placed it on the US market. The round shoots to point of aim (tested out to 50 yds), is very soft shooting and I belive would make a perfect home or self defense round. I plan to test it by shooting it thru some sheet metal with water filled jugs behind to see how it performs. Some will say it's another Powerball or EFMJ but it is a completely different design. I have heard they are also developing the round in 357sig, my favorite caliber. Here is a pic of the actual bullet: http://www.afte.org/forum/smf1/index.php?topic=1618.0 It looks like a standard hollowpoint with the exception of the metal post in the center.
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Old August 15th, 2010, 11:57 AM   #2
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish10' post='267653' date='Aug 8 2010, 06:50 PM
Managed to get my hands on 500 rounds of Fiocchi EMB which is extremely hard to find. It is a 92grn 9mm bullet with what is referred to as the Expansion Mono Block design.


The gel testing of the 9x19 EMB I saw a few yrs ago showed minimal expansion through cloth w deep penetration. Would like to see some new tests w the current loads.
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Old August 22nd, 2010, 11:46 PM   #3
 
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If it's designed to penetrate barriers, exactly why would it be considered a "perfect home defense round"?
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Old September 11th, 2010, 12:34 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wr moore' post='269274' date='Aug 23 2010, 01:46 AM
If it's designed to penetrate barriers, exactly why would it be considered a "perfect home defense round"?


I don't know if it would be the "perfect" HD rd but I like the idea of expansion in tissue after penetrating heavy clothing and such. Now that my curiosity is piqued I think I'll pick up a few rds for some highly unscientific testing of my own.

Tomac
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Old September 11th, 2010, 11:24 AM   #5
 
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Some guy on Youtube has a complain about Fiocchi's size

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af0lZD0MVLw
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Old September 11th, 2010, 12:00 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VicPhoenix' post='271352' date='Sep 11 2010, 01:24 PM
Some guy on Youtube has a complain about Fiocchi's size

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=af0lZD0MVLw


Hmmm... Fiocchi's 115gr Hornady XTP & 92gr EMB loads both function fine in both my S&W M&P9 & 9c.

Tomac
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Old September 11th, 2010, 12:42 PM   #7
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomac' post='271358' date='Sep 11 2010, 04:00 PM
Hmmm... Fiocchi's 115gr Hornady XTP & 92gr EMB loads both function fine in both my S&W M&P9 & 9c.

Tomac
The guy says that they are bigger than cor-bon,

but are they bigger than fmj?



Good to know that your M&Ps cycle 9mm Fiocchi without problems.

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Old September 26th, 2010, 09:29 AM   #8
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Today I tried a highly unscientific expansion test of the Fiocchi 92gr EMB from one of my M&P9c's.

I will admit to being a little concerned about using such a light bullet out of the 9c's short bbl.

I used 3 1-gal water jugs in full contact, presenting 18" of medium (I thought 2 might be sufficient w/the 3rd for a margin of safety).

Fired a single shot from 10', impacting the center of the first jug. Surprisingly, all 3 jugs exploded w/the third showing an exit hole out the back (shucks and other comments!).

Having deliberately set up the jugs so line-of-travel was easy to determine I decided to hunt out a bit along the bullet's probable track to see if I could locate it.

I'd barely looked down into the mud when I located the expanded bullet just inches away from the third jug's location. Apparently the bullet had just enough energy to barely punch out the back of the third jug and no further.

Expansion was a full & classic mushroom measuring .64" at the widest w/full weight retention (the bullet is entirely copper & bronze).

I realize this test is highly unscientific under ideal conditions but still I find myself impressed w/the level of expansion & depth of penetration from a short bbl.

Tomac

ETA: Here's the only other testing I could locate: http://www.raoulwagner.com:80/tests2005.htm



Recovered bullet w/an unfired cartridge:



Recovered bullet, side view:



Recovered bullet, front view:

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Old October 3rd, 2010, 09:09 AM   #9
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Just got back from the range, here are the results, all fired from 10' through 1 layer of lined leather and 2 layers of denim and correlate to how you see the bullets in the pic from left to right:



1) (Not shown) 3.6" bbl, EMB, bullet passed through leather, denim and all 4 jugs and was not recovered (I have no idea what happened here).

2) 3.6" bbl, EMB, this is the bullet from the first test last week, no leather or denim, Exp = .64", Pen = 18".

3) 3.6" bbl, Fiocchi 115gr XTP JHP, Exp = .52", Pen = 18".

4) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .69", Pen = 15".

5) 3.6" bbl, EMB, Exp = .74", Pen = 18".

6) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .65", Pen = 18".

7) 4.25" bbl, EMB, Exp = .70"*, Pen = 18". * = shed 2 petals in the 2nd jug.



After the first unrecovered shot, following bullets penetrated wet leather/denim, I have no idea what effect if any it might have on expansion/penetration. Remarkably consistent penetration despite different bbl lengths or prescence/lack of leather/denim.

Also tested for comparison (but not shown):

8) Federal .40 180gr Hydra-Shok, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".

9) Speer .40 155gr Gold Dot, 4" bbl, Exp = .61", Pen = 24".



Test setup:



Recovered bullets:





ETA: Here are some other 9mm water jug tests for comparison: http://stevespages.com/page8f9mmluger.html
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Old October 4th, 2010, 03:44 PM   #10
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Okay, here's a question for those better versed than I in fluid dynamics:

For such a lightweight bullet the EMB seems to achieve notable penetration w/very good expansion. Could this unexpected penetration be due in part to the EMB's bronze post possibly enhancing post-expansion hydrodynamics instead of presenting the typical entirely flat mushroom shape of more std JHP's?

Tomac
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Old October 10th, 2010, 05:40 AM   #11
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Here's an interesting quote from CorBon about the difference between their 95gr & 115gr 9mm DPX loads (solid copper, similar to the EMB but minus the center post) that *might* account for this much penetration from a shorter bbl:

Quote:
The 95 gr standard pressure DPX load in 9mm was designed for use in the smallest compact 9mm pistol. It actually mimics the performance of the 115 gr +P load fired from a full sized gun when the 95 gr load is fired from a compact 9mm. If you shoot the 115 gr +P 9mm DPX load from a gun with a 4-4.5" barrel into ballistic gelatin, it would give you 15-16" penetration with a recovered diameter of @ .60" The same results would be obtained using the 95 gr load in a 9mm pistol with a 3" barrel.
Tomac

ETA: I've sent a box of EMB to a guy down TX way who hunts feral hogs w/the 9mm. He's going to let me know how well it performs compared to other 9mm loads he's used.
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Old October 13th, 2010, 07:07 PM   #12
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomac' post='274607' date='Oct 10 2010, 09:40 AM
ETA: I've sent a box of EMB to a guy down TX way who hunts feral hogs w/the 9mm. He's going to let me know how well it performs compared to other 9mm loads he's used.


See now that sounds like fun
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Old October 23rd, 2010, 02:58 PM   #13
 
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Pretty interesting read especially that link to the other testing. I have used over a 1/2 case of the EMB now running it thru my HK P7s, Walther P99c, M&P 9c and a BHP and have not had a single failure! It has proven to be accurate at distances out to 50 yards with the best being a .5 inch group at 25 yards with my P7M13. Downside is that it is pretty hard to find but if you come across some give it a try, doubt you'll be disappointed.
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