9mm 147gr Ranger T & Federal 147gr HST performance - MP-Pistol Forum

9mm 147gr Ranger T & Federal 147gr HST performance

This is a discussion on 9mm 147gr Ranger T & Federal 147gr HST performance within the MP Ammunition forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; I plan on using either Win 147gr Ranger T or Fed 147gr HST in my M&P9 fullsize. Rather than having two different types/brands of ammo ...


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Old February 26th, 2011, 02:51 PM   #1
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I plan on using either Win 147gr Ranger T or Fed 147gr HST in my M&P9 fullsize. Rather than having two different types/brands of ammo for my FS and C, how do the above mentioned rounds perform out of a short barrel? I see Speer markets a gold dot for short barrel guns but I would much rather stay with either the Win or Fed load.



Thanks
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Old February 26th, 2011, 05:13 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay' post='290354' date='Feb 26 2011, 05:51 PM
I plan on using either Win 147gr Ranger T or Fed 147gr HST in my M&P9 fullsize. Rather than having two different types/brands of ammo for my FS and C, how do the above mentioned rounds perform out of a short barrel? I see Speer markets a gold dot for short barrel guns but I would much rather stay with either the Win or Fed load.



Thanks
Expansion and velocity will be different. However, the question is are you happy with the round. Both are designed to expand as needed. If that is the round you carry. Then continue to use it with the compact. It will shoot and work. Most of the subsonic rounds are designed for penetration and slow speed. I would google law enforcement test results. You would be surprised what is out there. Especially for the Federal HST round.
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Old February 26th, 2011, 06:37 PM   #3
 
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Originally Posted by Reiverman' post='290375' date='Feb 26 2011, 09:13 PM
Expansion and velocity will be different. However, the question is are you happy with the round. Both are designed to expand as needed. If that is the round you carry. Then continue to use it with the compact. It will shoot and work. Most of the subsonic rounds are designed for penetration and slow speed. I would google law enforcement test results. You would be surprised what is out there. Especially for the Federal HST round.


Would you expand on the 'you would be surprised what is out there' comment? I'm not sure if you're saying the HST is good, or bad.



I use Federal 124 P+ in both my FS and Compact.



Thanks



....
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Old February 26th, 2011, 07:04 PM   #4
 
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So I did a little google search myself and founds some interesting results. First link shows that Federal HST performs very well, but to my surprise, in regard to penetration 147 gr actually did better than the 124 gr P+.



http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-2.html



http://www.btfh.net/shoot/bullet-test-3.html
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Old February 26th, 2011, 08:24 PM   #5
 
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Evolution. Basic physics tells you the heavier round has more momentum therefore more penetration.
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Old February 26th, 2011, 09:36 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by m&pjamaica' post='290397' date='Feb 26 2011, 10:24 PM
Evolution. Basic physics tells you the heavier round has more momentum therefore more penetration.
Just slightly above your basic physics (second law of motion) includes velocity, usually the deal breaker.
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Old March 6th, 2011, 08:26 PM   #7
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Be careful, as there are 3 different types of Ranger ammo in 9mm.



The first is the RA9T, which is the "classic" Ranger T type bullet. It is NOT the bonded type.

The second is the RA9B, which is the BONDED Ranger T type bullet. This is exactly the same as the PDX1 round

The third is the older OSM type round. It is NOT bonded nor is it a Ranger/Talon style JHP. Its for practice and subsonic SMG use. I don't see it in the current Ranger catalog, but, its has gone by different line items. Its currently sold as USA9JHP2, but, has been labed "subsonic" Ranger loads.



The "best" is the RA9B, where/when you can get ahold of it. VERY limited availability and the LEOs I know that carry 9mm do not practice with it. Instead, they use RA9T for practice and carry either RA9B or PDX1.



The last SMG shoot I was at, they had stockpiles of USA9JHP2 for shooters...



Ranger ammo uses faster burning powder, from what I recall. That should be more appropriate for shorter barrels, assuming everything being equal.



Best advice I can give is to buy a box of both and find out which is more accurate vs. guessing.



In my G26, I carry PDX1.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 05:12 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRWeiss' post='290402' date='Feb 27 2011, 06:36 AM
Just slightly above your basic physics (second law of motion) includes velocity, usually the deal breaker.


KR... Do your homework. Though Kinetic Energy is half the mass of the bullet, times the square of it's velocity (higher velocity = MUCH higher energy) the heavier and slower bullets DO penetrate deeper in gelatin.



Now, assuming you have sufficient penetration (>12", but less than 18"), the more energy the better. BUT, if hyper-velocity lighter ammo fragments on impact and never penetrates more than 12", it may do you no good if you have to shoot through an outstretched arm, shoulder, and ribcage... ired from a 3" barrel, the 147 often performs BETTER than the faster 125 or 115. I know a few Federal Agents who carry 9mm back-up guns (usually G26), and they all carry 147gr 9mm ammo.



There's always a balance, and an eternal argument of which it king, speed or mass... but I guess that's what keeps all of us entertained, and the bullet manufacturers rich.



Jeff
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Old March 7th, 2011, 05:54 PM   #9
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I was originally going to go the RA9T route but have been reading alot about the RA9B and planned on getting it instead. I didn't know the RA9B and PDX1 were the same. PDX1 is easier to find than RA9B....but more expensive.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 06:19 PM   #10
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This might have been mentioned other places, but I've tested out the HST2 147gr on a Keltec PF9 (3.1" barrel) and doing the water jug test, had 0 problems... tried it through my 9FS and also, no problems. I don't have a chrono or anything but having tested it out on both barrel lengths in water from 10 feet, thats my load. 2 cents and whatnot, hope it helps.
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Old March 7th, 2011, 06:25 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistermog' post='291801' date='Mar 7 2011, 10:19 PM
This might have been mentioned other places, but I've tested out the HST2 147gr on a Keltec PF9 (3.1" barrel) and doing the water jug test, had 0 problems... tried it through my 9FS and also, no problems. I don't have a chrono or anything but having tested it out on both barrel lengths in water from 10 feet, thats my load. 2 cents and whatnot, hope it helps.


So I'm rolling down the Winchester Ranger track and here comes mistermog with his Federal HST...





Thanks for the info
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Old March 7th, 2011, 07:59 PM   #12
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oops, derailed....



I havent tried the Rangers, but so far I've been very happy witht he HSTs.



Just for grins I shot a few rounds out of the PF9 into some mud. Yes I can say the water jug test is vastly different. Full .68-.70 overall diameter out of the water, but only half expands in the mud, but still about a .45-.50 size. Not sure what the mud would represent but... dammit its different huh.



From what I've always read around here, carry what youre comfortable with and what works for you. I like the HSTs, but its all better than a sharp stick or a spoon.
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Old March 9th, 2011, 09:39 AM   #13
 
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The Federal HST line is a truly impressive round.



Waiting on replenishment of 230 grain .45, I only have a box and a half left



-Tom
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Old March 12th, 2011, 08:19 PM   #14
 
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I don't know a whole lot about the 147gr Rangers, but the HST is kind of the cats meow, in the way of 147gr ammo. A couple links below, to a gentleman that does a couple different tests on ammo, keep in mind, these are just your backyard tests, and obviously will be different than real world results.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KpO5kPuQYrA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wY_cJEDxxEI
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Old March 16th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #15
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RA9B and the PDX-1 are the same, but, I have never seen the PDX-1 "cheaper" than the Ranger line.



Ranger line comes 50 to a box for around $25, PDX1 is $20 for 25 rounds.



I get all my Ranger ammo from www.sgammo.com, and they have reasonable shipping costs.



I am NOT a huge fan of youtube warriors who do silly things with wet paper in milk jugs and such. Its interesting, but, certainly NOT scientific. (but, entertaining to watch folks make a mess)



Winchester is quoted as saying they adjusted the Ranger T line to work with short barrel autos with ammo since early 2000s.



I have nothing but good things to say about Federal, so, please don't think that I am putting the HST down. Its just that its so hard to get ahold of...



My $.02
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