Liberty Civil Defence - MP-Pistol Forum

Liberty Civil Defence

This is a discussion on Liberty Civil Defence within the MP Ammunition forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Hi friends has anyone else tried the Liberty civil defence ammo ?, I just tried it today in my 40c and let me say WOW ...


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Old May 9th, 2015, 11:59 AM   #1
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Liberty Civil Defence

Hi friends has anyone else tried the Liberty civil defence ammo ?, I just tried it today in my 40c and let me say WOW no recoil ( hardly), also this stuff is LIGHT almost feels as though I have my gun with no ammo in it when carrying
There's a few video's on youtube about this stuff I was kinda skeptical but this stuff is great, just thought I'd pass it on if any one wasn't sure on it
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Old May 9th, 2015, 12:16 PM   #2
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While I wouldn't want to be shot with it, I also wouldn't use it as carry ammo either. I'll stick with my HST's.
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Old May 23rd, 2015, 08:14 PM   #3
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The latest over priced gimmick ammo, there seems to be no end to the people who want to sell you pie in the sky stuff that they make miracle claims for but doesn't work in the real world.

There are many proven self defense rounds out there, many of which are more reasonably priced and actually work if you have to protect yourself or your loved ones.

I carry Hornady Critical Defense in my 9mm and my 40.
20 round box - 40 Cal SW Hornady Critical Defense 165 grain FTX Hollow Point Ammo | SGAmmo.com

There are many proven good choices, Winchester Ranger, Speer Gold Dot, Federal Tactical Bonded, Federal HST, and several more.

One thing to avoid like the plague is ammo that is significantly lighter than standard bullet weight, that 50 gr bullet will shoot so low at 25 yards you would likely completely miss the target, 40 S&W sights are regulated for standard bullet weights of 165 to 185 grains, significantly lighter bullets will be way off on the sights. Most self defense situations are up close and personal, but sometimes they are longer and you want a round that shoots pretty close to point of aim.
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Old May 24th, 2015, 06:07 AM   #4
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0EVjsX6G98

Id much rather shoot ball. Get a shot on the rib bone with ball at least it will go into the body cavity, the Liberty stuff looks like it expands at 2" so no, I wouldnt trust it with my life.

Try shooting a pissed off hog with it, I suspect you would be gored to death...

EB
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Old May 24th, 2015, 09:46 AM   #5
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Guy in the video says it makes a "rather nasty flesh wound", that's a good description of something that makes the bad guy get mad at you instead of stopping him.

Very reminiscent of the G2RIP ammo that's so lame and better called RIPOFF.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 07:40 AM   #6
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That ammo is incredibly light for the caliber 78grains for 45auto???? Should be 185-230grains. So you are giving up mass which you need for penetration. And you up hope that violent expansion will compensate for that? Sorry but that's a waste of your money.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 09:17 AM   #7
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I simply carry what my local LE Agencies carry... Speer Gold Dot (9mm 124gr. +P), allot easier to defend in court if I use what the local PD's use...just my thinking, nothing more or less...
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Old May 25th, 2015, 02:41 PM   #8
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If you're trying to stop a BG, load up with middlin' to heavy weight HST/Gold Dot/Ranger-T/PDX-1 (anything from DocGKR's list). Shoot a bad guy with this "Liberty" stuff, him and his buddies/homies show up at your funeral, and provide entertainment.
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Old May 25th, 2015, 02:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KRWeiss View Post
If you're trying to stop a BG, load up with middlin' to heavy weight HST/Gold Dot/Ranger-T/PDX-1 (anything from DocGKR's list). Shoot a bad guy with this "Liberty" stuff, him and his buddies/homies show up at your funeral, and provide entertainment.
And you even provide the link...
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Old May 27th, 2015, 05:59 PM   #10
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WOW, didn't think I'd get bashed for sharing some input on something I tried, next time I'll keep quiet

I have seen the list and tried what I could find here, mailing ammo is NOT an option here in MA, just figured I'd share my opinion on this ammo incase anyone was interested, won't do that again
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Old May 27th, 2015, 07:22 PM   #11
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No bashing meant, its just that a lot of people are looking for good carry ammo, and myself, as well as others wanted to make sure that somebody looking at that didn't make a bad choice.

Various outfits are constantly coming up with new gimmicks and then go on the hard sell, and some self appointed YouTube experts that are easily misled go out and promote the ammo. The mainline ammo makers spend a lot of money on projectile development, trying to find the best performance possible, and specifically the bullet makers, Hornady and Speer really put a lot of money into developing the absolute best performance, and in any kind of real world test, the gimmick bullet designs that come out are a flash in the pan, make a splash but can't be counted on to work in the real world.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 06:23 AM   #12
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You're not getting bashed... You're getting educated.

1) Shot placement.
2) Minimum Required Penetration (18" + or -).
3) Significant Expansion.

This junk violates rule 2, for the sake of rule 3... and I'd argue fragmentation isn't expansion. Fragmentation is what you want if you're restricted to FMJ ammo, which we are not.

Choose a 100% reliable ammo that you can place multiple hits on target accurately with speed.

Then choose an ammo that will penetrate through the clothing muscle and bone of an adversary who is standing sideways to you: through a jacket, a shirt, arm muscle, an upper arm bone, more arm muscle, shirt, jacket, jacket, shirt, chest muscle, ribs... THEN vitals!

Finally... Choose an ammo that after penetrating all of the above... THEN expands and does a lot of damage.

Jeff
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Old May 28th, 2015, 11:53 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffWard View Post
... choose an ammo that will penetrate through the clothing muscle and bone of an adversary who is standing sideways to you: through a jacket, a shirt, arm muscle, an upper arm bone, more arm muscle, shirt, jacket, jacket, shirt, chest muscle, ribs... THEN vitals!

Finally... Choose an ammo that after penetrating all of the above... THEN expands and does a lot of damage.
Problem is, nothing in 9mm is capable that, it's quite of a stretch for 40S&W. You'd probably need a 45ACP or 10mm loaded with HST, Gold Dot, or one of the Ranger/PDX-1 loadings to do that consistently.

Our local ammo tester (he also tests ammo for ATK) puts a sheet of heavy garment leather over 2 layers of "Carhartt Duck" separated by 1" of fibrous batting, which is a real world COM scenario here in the northwest (under 2.2" is conservative if the bullet is also expected to go through an arm/sleeve). Several popular 9mm defensive rounds couldn't penetrate that, the ones that did never expanded through even 6" of ordinance gel. except for Corbon DPX which expands and penetrates 8-10".

How about 40S&W you ask: 165 grains of HST (less than 48 cents a round) from a 3.5" barrel goes through his protocol, enters the gelatin block and THEN expands, with penetration of 10-12". Most of his 45ACP ammo performed very well, almost as if the barrier was not even there.
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Old May 28th, 2015, 12:03 PM   #14
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What weight and brand of 9mm ammo did he test on? What distance?
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Old May 28th, 2015, 02:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete1971 View Post
WOW, didn't think I'd get bashed for sharing some input on something I tried, next time I'll keep quiet

I have seen the list and tried what I could find here, mailing ammo is NOT an option here in MA, just figured I'd share my opinion on this ammo incase anyone was interested, won't do that again
Yes agreed not trying to bash at all guy. That stuff is expensive. Being in mass I know you are hard pressed to find places that ship to mass residents so I feel your pain brother.

I try and find reliable highly regarded ammo in stores and I stock up when I find what I like. I have 300 rounds in 124gr speer gold dot on hand because it's tough to find. I search my 2 local wally worlds, bass pro, dicks sporting goods and any local gun stores when in the vicinity to make sure I always have ammo on hand. My buddy just moved to new Hampshire so he will be buying extra ammo online for when I visit that way there will be a box or two with my name on it...

Lastly my apologies if you took my post as insulting or part of a bash that was not my intention I just was shocked that ammo weighed so little for the caliber.
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