Hornady Critical Defense grain for 9mm Shield - MP-Pistol Forum

Hornady Critical Defense grain for 9mm Shield

This is a discussion on Hornady Critical Defense grain for 9mm Shield within the MP Ammunition forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Newbie here learning as much as possible about my gun and ammo. I have read in multiple places that Critical Defense the one of the ...


Go Back   MP-Pistol Forum > Smith & Wesson MP Forum > MP Ammunition

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old January 5th, 2017, 02:51 PM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 11
Hornady Critical Defense grain for 9mm Shield

Newbie here learning as much as possible about my gun and ammo.

I have read in multiple places that Critical Defense the one of the go to rounds for SD.

100 Grain: speed (1005 ft/s) energy (224)
115 Grain: speed (1030 ft/s) energy (271)
135 Grain (non +P): speed (961 ft/s) energy (277)

135 Gr is the slowest but has the largest mass. It also is falls under Critical Duty which is designed for full size handgun. Which the shield is not. From my understand, if fired thru a shorter barrel, the velocity will be slower.

100 Gr come is 2nd place in velocity but last in energy and in mass . From my understand, energy and mass = stopping force.

115 Gr is the fastest and 2nd in energy and in mass. This rd has me a little corn-fused it is heavier but is still faster than the 100 and almost has the same energy as 135.

I am leaning toward the 115 due the velocity,mass and energy. Other reason is, I was advised to shoot the same grain that you regular shot at the range for SD. This way you are familiar to the characteristics and reactions of the gun. I don't know if it is true but sounds logical.

The questions is what grain would be the best?
Flats392 is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 03:58 PM   #2
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 137
I carry Federal HST 147 gr JHP........................................I also carry Critical Defense 115 gr. JHP. I shoot 115 gr. FMJ for practice, but have also practiced with my carry ammo. I carry the Critical Defense in the colder months because of it's cloth penetrating design. I would carry the 124 gr. if I could find it. I carry the HST the other times, just because I prefer a heavier bullet versus velocity, and I believe that HST's are one of the best. You can basically use any type of ammo for practice. It's good to get used to shooting different ammo, to see how your firearm takes to different ammo makers ammo. Many people like the Gold Dot's, and the Dots for short barrels. Whether it be 115, 124, 147 gr., they are all good choices. Some people like lighter/faster bullets for supposed better penetration. Some people like slower, heavier bullets for supposed larger holes. I personally go with the second theory. I want a larger hole. It's also the reason that I carry .40 cal. a lot more than 9mm. For carry, I would never carry anything under 115 gr. as a starting point. You will also notice and I can't prove it, but in my experience, the heavier the bullet, the more accurate it will be out of these short barrel firearms. I own nothing but short barrel firearms now, and it seems to be the case with my particular firearms. Actually, 124 gr. seems to be a good compromise for SD. If you look at the Civil War, they were flinging large pieces of lead, at much slower speeds, and look at the devastation it caused. It's not always about the velocity, or the weight. It's the combo, and todays ammo is all real close in it's end result, no matter the grain of choice.
berettabone is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 07:19 PM   #3
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Alabama
Posts: 61
I also go with Federal HST 124gr and have for many years now. It has the best results and ballistics of all the SD rounds.
MWalden is offline  
 
Old January 5th, 2017, 09:42 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 944
Federal HST 124gr... its all i ever carry. It is the most accurate out of all my M&P`s.
I`ve worked with the Hornady critical duty (standard pressure), works very well,
i just worry about over penetration from all the tests i`ve done with it.
PaPow is offline  
Old January 5th, 2017, 11:22 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: WA
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flats392 View Post
From my understand, energy and mass = stopping force.
No. Pistol bullets crush the tissue in front of them as they penetrate. That is the only reliable wounding mechanism. If the bullet crushes tissue in the brain or cervical spinal cord it can result in paralysis or death. If the bullet crushes the wall of a major artery it causes bleeding which eventually causes low blood pressure which causes unconsciousness or death.

Your ammunition needs to feed reliably, be reasonably accurate, expand reliably, and must penetrate to an adequate depth to reach the heart and major blood vessels from any angle, against any size assailant, and through intervening arms. Under-penetration results in shots that do not reach the vital organs and do not create the rapid bleeding necessary. The infamous example is the shot from Agent Dove on Platt that didn't quite reach the heart; it was a non-survivable wound, but the bad guy bled out in minutes instead of seconds.

Decades of wound ballistics research has determined that 10% ballistic gelatin is a trustworthy tissue simulant and that bullets should penetrate should penetrate 12-18" (FBI) or 12.5-14"/13-16" (IWBA) after penetrating the test barriers. The IWBA test protocol uses bare gelatin, four layers of heavy denim, and auto glass. FBI barriers are bare gelatin, heavy clothing, steel (i.e. car door), wallboard, plywood, and auto glass.

For more information go here and read everything by DocGKR (Dr. Gary Roberts):
https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition
He has a list of ammunition he has tested that passes the performance tests:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)


ShootingTheBull410 on Youtube does ammunition testing (bare gelatin and four-layer denim) with ~3" 9mm pistols. He had good luck with Critical Defense, but Critical Duty did not perform correctly.

The bullet weight doesn't really matter so long as the load meets the standards listed above. I personally prefer 147 grain in 9mm and carry HSTs.
BennyRayRiddle is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 09:31 AM   #6
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Miami Florida
Posts: 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyRayRiddle View Post

9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)


ShootingTheBull410 on Youtube does ammunition testing (bare gelatin and four-layer denim) with ~3" 9mm pistols. He had good luck with Critical Defense, but Critical Duty did not perform correctly.

The bullet weight doesn't really matter so long as the load meets the standards listed above. I personally prefer 147 grain in 9mm and carry HSTs.

Thank you. I will read the links you posted.

I also found this online.

The 5 Best 9mm Self-defense Loads | OutdoorHub

for the shield per manuf. recommendation #2 and #5

if you bend the manuf. recommendation #1 and #3
Flats392 is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 11:02 AM   #7
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 137
Or, if you do your own tests and come up with different results.............mostly all +p ammo, and lots of different tests coming up with different results.
berettabone is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 04:26 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Bill in Tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,374
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyRayRiddle View Post
No. Pistol bullets crush the tissue in front of them as they penetrate. That is the only reliable wounding mechanism. If the bullet crushes tissue in the brain or cervical spinal cord it can result in paralysis or death. If the bullet crushes the wall of a major artery it causes bleeding which eventually causes low blood pressure which causes unconsciousness or death.

Your ammunition needs to feed reliably, be reasonably accurate, expand reliably, and must penetrate to an adequate depth to reach the heart and major blood vessels from any angle, against any size assailant, and through intervening arms. Under-penetration results in shots that do not reach the vital organs and do not create the rapid bleeding necessary. The infamous example is the shot from Agent Dove on Platt that didn't quite reach the heart; it was a non-survivable wound, but the bad guy bled out in minutes instead of seconds.

Decades of wound ballistics research has determined that 10% ballistic gelatin is a trustworthy tissue simulant and that bullets should penetrate should penetrate 12-18" (FBI) or 12.5-14"/13-16" (IWBA) after penetrating the test barriers. The IWBA test protocol uses bare gelatin, four layers of heavy denim, and auto glass. FBI barriers are bare gelatin, heavy clothing, steel (i.e. car door), wallboard, plywood, and auto glass.

For more information go here and read everything by DocGKR (Dr. Gary Roberts):
https://pistol-forum.com/forumdisplay.php?19-Ammunition
He has a list of ammunition he has tested that passes the performance tests:
https://pistol-forum.com/showthread....f-Defense-Ammo
9 mm:
Barnes XPB 115 gr JHP (copper bullet)
Federal Tactical 124 gr JHP (LE9T1)
Federal HST 124 gr +P JHP (P9HST3)
Remington Golden Saber bonded 124 gr +P JHP (GSB9MMD)
Speer Gold Dot 124 gr +P JHP
Winchester Ranger-T 124 gr +P JHP (RA9124TP)
Winchester 124 gr +P bonded JHP (RA9BA)
Winchester Ranger-T 127 gr +P+ JHP (RA9TA)
Federal Tactical 135 gr +P JHP (LE9T5)
Hornady Critical Duty 135 gr +P PT
Federal HST 147 gr JHP (P9HST2)
Remington Golden Saber 147 gr JHP (GS9MMC)
Speer Gold Dot 147 gr JHP
Speer G2 147 gr PT
Winchester Ranger-T 147 gr JHP (RA9T)
Winchester 147 gr bonded JHP (RA9B/Q4364)


ShootingTheBull410 on Youtube does ammunition testing (bare gelatin and four-layer denim) with ~3" 9mm pistols. He had good luck with Critical Defense, but Critical Duty did not perform correctly.

The bullet weight doesn't really matter so long as the load meets the standards listed above. I personally prefer 147 grain in 9mm and carry HSTs.
This
Bill in Tx is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 06:12 PM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Illinois
Posts: 24
Here's some more food for thought, ballistic tests.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self...tic-tests/#9mm
stilcrazee is offline  
Old January 6th, 2017, 10:40 PM   #10
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: WA
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flats392 View Post
for the shield per manuf. recommendation #2 and #5

if you bend the manuf. recommendation #1 and #3
If you're referring to +P then it is fine. A steady diet will just wear the gun a little faster.
BennyRayRiddle is offline  
Old January 7th, 2017, 07:36 AM   #11
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 944
Quote:
Originally Posted by BennyRayRiddle View Post
If you're referring to +P then it is fine. A steady diet will just wear the gun a little faster.
And yourself as well
PaPow is offline  
Reply

  MP-Pistol Forum > Smith & Wesson MP Forum > MP Ammunition

Thread Tools
Display Modes




Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2006-2012 MP-Pistol. All rights reserved.
MP-Pistol is a M&P pistol enthusiast forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. of Springfield, MA.