Safety or no safety? - MP-Pistol Forum

Safety or no safety?

This is a discussion on Safety or no safety? within the MP Compact Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; I tend to want a gun with a safety. I am kind of turned off by the safety on the 9c, kind of big. Is ...


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Old May 13th, 2016, 03:00 PM   #1
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Safety or no safety?

I tend to want a gun with a safety. I am kind of turned off by the safety on the 9c, kind of big. Is there an after market safety available? Has anyone tried modifying the safety, maybe grind it down a little.
Thoughts?
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:17 PM   #2
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The no-thumb-safety M&P has two safeties: 1) a drop safety, that prevents the firing pin from reaching the primer unless the trigger has been pulled; and 2) the trigger safety, which prevents the trigger from moving unless the lower portion has been flexed to its limit, as by a finger.

If you do not pull the trigger the gun will not fire, period. If you don't trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, why are you sure you won't depress a thumb safety? The real answer is trigger discipline -- your finger is STRAIGHT, except and ONLY while firing.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:41 PM   #3
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Dittos.

The real safety is in the shooter and not the gun.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 04:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by k2ue View Post
The no-thumb-safety M&P has two safeties: 1) a drop safety, that prevents the firing pin from reaching the primer unless the trigger has been pulled; and 2) the trigger safety, which prevents the trigger from moving unless the lower portion has been flexed to its limit, as by a finger.

If you do not pull the trigger the gun will not fire, period. If you don't trust yourself to keep your finger out of the trigger guard, why are you sure you won't depress a thumb safety? The real answer is trigger discipline -- your finger is STRAIGHT, except and ONLY while firing.
You certainly have a good resumé so I know you know what you are talking about. Is there any argument for a safety on a Striker fire pistol? In reading since I asked the question I see that the 9c it is easy to remove the safety but it can not be added if you get it without the safety.
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Old May 13th, 2016, 07:55 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 n out View Post
You certainly have a good resumé so I know you know what you are talking about. Is there any argument for a safety on a Striker fire pistol? In reading since I asked the question I see that the 9c it is easy to remove the safety but it can not be added if you get it without the safety.
As long as you can keep your finger off the trigger; no.

Pretty much the same for any firearm on the planet; they don't shoot by themselves.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 04:37 AM   #6
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There's nothing wrong with having a thumb safety.

It's simply a matter of personal preference.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 07:54 AM   #7
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There's nothing wrong with having a thumb safety.

It's simply a matter of personal preference.
Yea I kind of agree. I think some fantasize themselves doing some fast draw or being in a gunfight like in the movies. The possession of the gun when you need it is what will really protect you.

In my 50 adult years I have used a gun three time in self defense and it never consisted of a fast draw. It was just having the gun when I needed it. In fact in one case it was a riot gun I had to pull from behind the seat of my truck.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 08:49 AM   #8
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One advantage to a thumb safety is that it makes it more difficult for a zombie to use it should one get it away from you and if zombies start to use tools. Until then, BGs could take it away and w/o a thumb safety it's just point and shoot.

Lots of folks shooting 1911s and 2011s use them and it becomes an auto response to snik the safety off and back on as required. It's been said that it's slower to do that, but I don't find that to be so at all. It happens w/o thought and is just something that happens simultaneously as part of the trigger prep process. All of this assuming a good extended safety and not a GI 1911 type. They are the pits. An extended safety also helps to mitigate recoil to a small extent. Ones thumb rides the safety and helps to hold down the muzzle climb. So if you get it with a thumb safety my vote is for a big one that does more than just makes the gun safe. You'll be able to actually use it to your advantage. But why can't the outside be ground down? I wouldn't want to though.

But thumb safety or no thumb safety the ultimate safety is in your head.

If it's ordered with a thumb safety it can be removed later if you want that configuration, correct? Mine has the hole and plug, but no thumb safety. You'll need to learn the innards of the gun to do that, but it's not difficult to do. Or of course you could hire it done too.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 10:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8 n out View Post
You certainly have a good resumé so I know you know what you are talking about. Is there any argument for a safety on a Striker fire pistol? In reading since I asked the question I see that the 9c it is easy to remove the safety but it can not be added if you get it without the safety.
There is an argument for having a safety on a Striker fire pistol and that is..... it makes it much safer to holster with the safety engaged. Drawstrings, jackets and etc can get into the trigger guard if you are not very careful. You can always switch the safety off after holstering, as I do. I also like to engage the safety if I am just handling the pistol and the rare times I might pocket carry. If I were to buy another pistol, I would choose one with a safety.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 01:26 PM   #10
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There is an argument for having a safety on a Striker fire pistol and that is..... it makes it much safer to holster with the safety engaged. Drawstrings, jackets and etc can get into the trigger guard if you are not very careful. You can always switch the safety off after holstering, as I do. I also like to engage the safety if I am just handling the pistol and the rare times I might pocket carry. If I were to buy another pistol, I would choose one with a safety.
Holstering is the reason I bought my Shield with a safety. I have a 9c and a Pro without safeties.

I holster and then flick off the safety. Rarely do I pocket carry the Shield.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 03:20 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by 8 n out View Post
Is there any argument for a safety on a Striker fire pistol? In reading since I asked the question I see that the 9c it is easy to remove the safety but it can not be added if you get it without the safety.
WRT the holstering argument: every negligent discharge while holstering I have seen involved fingers in the wrong place, or attempting to holster too fast without checking for obstructions. Since, once drawn, you should not be re-holstering unless the situation is calm and stable, there is no excuse for not doing so slowly, with visual confirmation that the holster mouth is clear and unobstructed.

I purchased my Shield when there was not a no-safety option. Never having engaged the safety on purpose, it was momentarity confounding when, one day, the trigger would not move. The few seconds it took to realize the safety must have been inadvertently moved to ON would have been a huge problem, had it not been IDPA-style practice. It look only that once to be in the shop fabricating a dummy safety lever replacement that is never ON. The no-safety model followed from the factory shortly thereafter.

There are additional safety measures that do not involve a safety lever on the gun: the pistol in a biometric safe under my bed I assume will be accessed in the dark, when I am probably close to naked. So within the safe the pistol is loaded, with a round in the chamber, but in a holster. I can confidently remove the pistol still in the holster in the dark, and when it is securely in-hand draw the pistol if and when required, knowing it is live and ready to go. This as opposed to not in a holster and safety on, where I could easily OFF the safety in the dark without being aware, and fire while trying to establish a grip.

I don't know of any instructors I hang out with who use striker pistols with a safety lever, I suspect because teaching trigger discipline that does not assume a safety lever will save you from yourself is an important teaching objective.

Last edited by k2ue; May 15th, 2016 at 03:25 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 03:40 PM   #12
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As has been said before, the best safety is between one's ears....the brain. However, being human, we make mistakes....we are imperfect. So a safety on a pistol is an added measure of safety when engaged....as is a holster that covers the trigger.

A person that I know had his Glock 26 in his front pants pocket along with his car keys. When he grabbed his car keys and gave a tug to bring them out of his pocket....well.....he is expected to make a full recovery from his injuries.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 04:14 PM   #13
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Having a safety or not is something that is a personal choice but one thing to keep in mind is that unless you practice a lot and by a lot I really mean constant and long term training though even with that there is no telling how you will react when you get the Adrenalin rush you will get tunnel vision and your hearing will be reduced and you will get what is often called mitten hands where you lose fine motor skills. This happens even with seasoned LEO and military and you wont know how you will react until you are in that type of situation. That being said just keep in mind one holstered in a proper holster the trigger should be covered and it should be able to retain the gun until drawn and you should never remove your gun unless you have to.

Just keep safe in however you plan to carry.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 06:52 PM   #14
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The primary safety on all weapons is, and has always been, muzzle direction. All other mechanical safeties are secondary in importance and are subject to failure.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqc6lmy3cYU

Last edited by mp9werks; May 15th, 2016 at 06:58 PM.
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Old May 15th, 2016, 10:17 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by w01fm4n View Post
Having a safety or not is something that is a personal choice but one thing to keep in mind is that unless you practice a lot and by a lot I really mean constant and long term training though even with that there is no telling how you will react when you get the Adrenalin rush you will get tunnel vision and your hearing will be reduced and you will get what is often called mitten hands where you lose fine motor skills. This happens even with seasoned LEO and military and you wont know how you will react until you are in that type of situation. That being said just keep in mind one holstered in a proper holster the trigger should be covered and it should be able to retain the gun until drawn and you should never remove your gun unless you have to.

Just keep safe in however you plan to carry.
While many use this reasoning for no saftey, it may also be an argument for a safety since you can't trust yourself to not just pull the trigger. It is not the time or loss of it I don't think that matters since many cops carry a gun with a holster snap. It is the manual possession of the gun that is going to protect you in most cases not the ability to do a Marshall Dillion fast draw.

This is a well known video of what happens to a person under a little stress and she was trained.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDfNV9bJoSg
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