Failure to Feed mystery - MP-Pistol Forum

Failure to Feed mystery

This is a discussion on Failure to Feed mystery within the MP Compact Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Hi folks! New to the forum, hopefully get some good feedback! Thanks for any help! I recently got a M&P .40c. Out of the box ...


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Old August 24th, 2016, 02:11 PM   #1
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Failure to Feed mystery

Hi folks! New to the forum, hopefully get some good feedback! Thanks for any help!

I recently got a M&P .40c. Out of the box I love it. Took to the range and fed 300 rounds through it. Not one malfunction. Decided to trick it out. Installed the Apex Red Flat-Faced Forward Set Sear & Trigger Kit, and installed TruGlo TFX sights, sweet... Fired another 100 rounds no problem at all. I talked to S&W performance center about making it like their new Shield Performance edition and they referred me to Mag-Na-Port.

I sent the gun and a Storm Lake .357 Sig barrel to them for porting and slide lightening so basically it is like the Performance edition of the shield. Then it went off to Robar for their 'Norton Special' NP3 Plus coating/finish. I also had a 10 and a 15 round mag NP3 coated. It came back very pretty!

I got 500 rounds of .40 reloads (good company 'MiWall') The first 100 rounds went fine. Then I started to notice that the 15 round mag (with XGRIP mag adapter) started to fail to feed. But more mysterious the 10 round mags would occasionally also fail to feed.

If I slap the bottom of the mag hard it will (most of the time) then feed the next round. I see that the slide has cycled and started to push the next round, but it goes straight, and doesn't tilt 'up' to feed in the ramp. The nose of the bullet seems to impact the lower lip of the barrel and get stuck. This happens with both barrels (.40 and .357). It happens mostly with the 15 rd Promag Magazine, but also with the factory 10 rd mags, just not nearly as often.

Gun has been cleaned completely with same results. Mags have been cleaned with same results. Barrel ramps polished with same result. Tried a different slide spring with same results, back to original spring.

I can't see how the new finish would impact this feeding.
I might suspect the porting, however I also noted that on occasion when loading a new mag into a locked open slide, and I drop the slide on a full mag (especially in the .357) the bullet won't feed from that position and jams on the lower lip of the barrel. So it's is not a matter of slide recoil/timing.

I have a new factory S&W 15 rd mag on order to see if it just a bad mag, BUT, why would the factory ten rd ones also occasionally do it...?

I really don't think it is the ammo, for the simple reason I am swapping out barrels and shooting .357 sig also, and it has the same results. So, what the heck could it be? THANKS for listening and thanks for any ideas!
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Old August 24th, 2016, 02:26 PM   #2
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I won't attempt to answer much of your question since you have so many modifications to it, just one detail I noticed. You mentioned Promag, those really have a bad reputation, you can pretty much count on feeding problems with those mags.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 02:35 PM   #3
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Mag

I hope it as simple as the magazine. I am getting the factory S&W 15 rd mag soon and will post an update to the problem. I know it is heavily modified, but through elimination I can't see which mod would cause this FTF at the mag to barrel level. The rest of the gun is great, smooth, and very accurate. I just want to try and nail down total reliability! THANKS for the Promag info!
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Old August 24th, 2016, 03:38 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G56 View Post
I won't attempt to answer much of your question since you have so many modifications to it, just one detail I noticed. You mentioned Promag, those really have a bad reputation, you can pretty much count on feeding problems with those mags.
+1.

Too many different things changed at once to sort out long distance.

I too have no use for promag products.

Last edited by Rick M; August 24th, 2016 at 03:40 PM.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 04:49 PM   #5
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Well, I was hoping to get some ideas... Process of elimination should help. But if you guys don't want to try, ok, thanks anyway. Disappointing...

Thanks for the thumbs down for Promag, will try the new 15 rd S&W when it gets here.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 05:26 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Rick M View Post
+1.

Too many different things changed at once to sort out long distance.

I too have no use for promag products.
I agree with the others also. I assume this is not a carry gun with that many modifications. Even so it would get annoying to have several failures at the range.
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Old August 24th, 2016, 06:31 PM   #7
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I agree with the others also. I assume this is not a carry gun with that many modifications. Even so it would get annoying to have several failures at the range.
(sigh) oh well, another no idea reply... hoping for more positive ideas, but... hopeful still that somebody actually has ideas...
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Old August 25th, 2016, 06:27 AM   #8
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Nice looking pistol!!

"If I slap the bottom of the mag hard it will (most of the time) then feed the next round."

I see you're using a grip sleeve, make sure it is not interfering with the mag butt plate causing the mag not to seat fully.

Last edited by NCW Ray; August 25th, 2016 at 06:29 AM.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 06:35 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by NCW Ray View Post
Nice looking pistol!!

"If I slap the bottom of the mag hard it will (most of the time) then feed the next round."

I see you're using a grip sleeve, make sure it is not interfering with the mag butt plate causing the mag not to seat fully.
First, THANKS for a great idea and trying to help! I really appreciate new ideas. I did check that, and the problem was actually there before I put the sleeve on to try it.

I even carefully reviewed MY grip making sure that I wasn't bumping any controls during the firing process (slide catch, or safety) but I wasn't.

Also, the fact that it will do this when releasing the locked slide forward on a newly loaded mag seems to eliminate that.

Still hopeful it is the mag, but keep the ideas coming! THANKS!
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Old August 25th, 2016, 04:02 PM   #10
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Your description sounds like the rounds are hanging in the mags.

There is a reason for the problem to surface after the mods were made

Did you have the mags refinished? Have you had the mags apart?
If the mags have been apart, try reversing the mag spring.
Make sure that the mag follower moves freely inside the mag.

I agree on the ProMag causing troubles but that would not affect the factory mag.

Since the slide has been lightened, it may be moving too fast for the mag spring to get the round up correctly. If that is the case a stronger recoil spring may be necessary.

As someone has posted, there have been so many things changed that is hard to finpoint the cause of the problem, My comments are just some of the possibilities that I can think of at this time.

Last edited by donhudd; August 25th, 2016 at 04:09 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 04:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by donhudd View Post
Your description sounds like the rounds are hanging in the mags.

There is a reason for the problem to surface after the mods were made

Did you have the mags refinished? Have you had the mags apart?
If the mags have been apart, try reversing the mag spring.
Make sure that the mag follower moves freely inside the mag.

I agree on the ProMag causing troubles but that would not affect the factory mag.

Since the slide has been lightened, it may be moving too fast for the mag spring to get the round up correctly. If that is the case a stronger recoil spring may be necessary.

As someone has posted, there have been so many things changed that is hard to finpoint the cause of the problem, My comments are just some of the possibilities that I can think of at this time.
Great ideas about the mags... I will check the springs! Yes, the 15 rd Promag has been refinished.

But, the slide lightening/timing issue seems to be discounted because this will also happen when the slide is locked open, a new loaded mag is inserted, and the slide release pushed down to strip a round from the mag, and wham, it will jam low on the barrel.

THANKS for the point to investigate!
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Old August 25th, 2016, 05:42 PM   #12
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(sigh) oh well, another no idea reply... hoping for more positive ideas, but... hopeful still that somebody actually has ideas...
Here's a positive idea......how about a little introspection, don't be such a putz at the notion that your thoughtless modifications of an already reliable weapon and Vegas gambled re-engineering multiple aspects simultaneously to your fancy and believe it will just work out fine; then having the balls to criticize Forum members for not simplistically rescuing you from drowning in your own stew of gunsmithing stupidity. Your photo's are useless for any analysis.

Last edited by mp9werks; August 25th, 2016 at 06:03 PM.
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Old August 25th, 2016, 07:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by mp9werks View Post
Here's a positive idea......how about a little introspection, don't be such a putz at the notion that your thoughtless modifications of an already reliable weapon and Vegas gambled re-engineering multiple aspects simultaneously to your fancy and believe it will just work out fine; then having the balls to criticize Forum members for not simplistically rescuing you from drowning in your own stew of gunsmithing stupidity. Your photo's are useless for any analysis.
Ahhhh... there he is, the guy on every forum that needs to be 'THAT' guy...

I didn't criticize anyone, actually I think it was quite the other way around (look in mirror sir), I was just honestly asking for help and good ideas. Wasn't really looking for folks to just be nasty. But, if that's your thing ok.

So, "putz", "stupidity", and because of where I live you have fairly judged me....

Ok, thanks for the input, now back to actually trying to solve a problem. Have a great day and feel great you flamed someone you don't even know...

Anyway, thanks to the folks that are actually trying to help.

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Old August 26th, 2016, 05:45 AM   #14
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I believe that the NP3+ coating is a lubeless coating, but have you tried putting some lube on the rails? Too, I believe the NP3+ needs to be broken in. I'd get a few hundred rounds of junk ammo and just fire away, or dry fire it and fully rack the slide to reset the striker.

BTW, how long did it take for you to get your gun back from Robar? I've had a gun there for NP3+ since Jun 6th. Their website claimed a 5-6 week backlog if I recall.

Edit:
I took this directly from the Robar site:

How do I maintain my refinished firearm?

We suggest maintaining the exterior as you would a blued firearm to keep them in the best condition possible! If you have a firearm completely refinished in NP3, a period of 200 to 300 rounds is typically required for break in with quality gun oil or grease. After this period you can run your weapon lightly lubricated or completely dry! If you’ve chosen Roguard or PolyT2, the same number of rounds apply however, we suggest keeping a minimal amount of synthetic lubricant in the higher wearing areas.

Last edited by BrianK; August 26th, 2016 at 05:49 AM.
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Old August 26th, 2016, 12:12 PM   #15
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[QUOTE=BrianK;455873]I believe that the NP3+ coating is a lubeless coating, but have you tried putting some lube on the rails? Too, I believe the NP3+ needs to be broken in. I'd get a few hundred rounds of junk ammo and just fire away, or dry fire it and fully rack the slide to reset the striker.

BTW, how long did it take for you to get your gun back from Robar? I've had a gun there for NP3+ since Jun 6th. Their website claimed a 5-6 week backlog if I recall.

Hi and thanks for the idea. Yes, I still keep it lubed when shooting. Even though I have run about 300 rounds through it since re-finish. I still just feel better keeping the rails and wear points lubed with break free.

I also got all that info from Robar. But, seems this can't be related to refinish (and the gun that is... maybe the mag) because of the point of failure. I am really leaning towards the other good ideas of the 'ProMag' and the spring. Checking that next week when I get the factory S&W mag.

Since the round will hang even with a locked back slide and a freshly loaded mag it seems to eliminate the porting

The finish might have been a suspect if it was too tight or impairing the slide movement, but it sure doesn't seem so.

No way it's the Apex trigger, that just has nothing to do with feeding a round.

Not the new sights....

That's all the mods.

Removing the sleeve on the earlier note from a helpful user

Getting the new mag...

If I have another problem, my next step will be to try a totally different kind of ammo, but even that seems like it would not be it as I have shot two different calibers with same problem... but it was the same MAGAZINE... That sure seems to be the suspect eh?



It took Robar about 2 months to get me my gun back. Robar did a great job and I am sure you will like your NP3+ finish. This was early this year. They were saying at that time they were getting backed up. Did you also send an M&P for the Norton Special?

Thanks again!
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