Why Does Smith & Wesson Keep Dropping the Ball? Rant ... - MP-Pistol Forum

Why Does Smith & Wesson Keep Dropping the Ball? Rant ...

This is a discussion on Why Does Smith & Wesson Keep Dropping the Ball? Rant ... within the MP Full Size Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; I know I'm going to hit on a subject where either you don't care or you do care ... either way .... here it goes! ...


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Old January 31st, 2017, 08:50 AM   #1
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Why Does Smith & Wesson Keep Dropping the Ball? Rant ...

I know I'm going to hit on a subject where either you don't care or you do care ... either way .... here it goes!


I've been watching Smith and Wesson 'Drop the Ball' on the 10mm option for the M&P since 2010.

For the life of me I can't understand why they won't make an M&P, or any other model, in 10mm! After all ... there is more of a demand for that cartridge now than there ever has been, and they just keep ignoring people who shoot the 10mm.

The Lion's Share of 10mm pistol profits are going to Sig, Glock, CZ, and Kimber. I personally hate a 10mm 1911, so I've skipped the Dan Wesson (CZ) and Kimber models, but I do own several Sig and Glock models in 10mm.

Marketing just happens to be one of my 'Field of Expertise' and I can't , for the life of me, figure out why S&W keeps ignoring the 10mm shooters and not even acknowledging the cartridge's existence ... even though they were the first pistol company to chamber it on a production scale.

Why does S&W continuously ignore the 10mm crowd? Even if they only produced 10k of them on the first run ... I know those 10k would sell like 'Hotcakes' within the first week!
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Old January 31st, 2017, 09:05 AM   #2
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There was more than a little bad press associated with S&W's first foray into the 10mm realm. Undeserved, I think, but extant non-the-less. Since that time, with the exception of a few revolvers, they seem to steer clear of that cartridge. Like you, I would be interested in a 10mm M&P, but I'll be surprised if we see one any time soon.

HRF
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Old January 31st, 2017, 09:30 AM   #3
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I wouldn't call it dropping the ball at all... marketing and making money are part of the program... because a couple of guys out of thousands may want a particular round is no reason to build a gun that won't sell... not to mention be profitable.. guns tend to sell based on what military and law enforcement use.. don't know of any using 10mm at this point, at least not enough to speak about. How much 10mm ammo do you see stocked on the shelves..
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Old January 31st, 2017, 10:16 AM   #4
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It just not enough interest in the round. There is very little reason to use it as a range toy simply due to expense and it is over kill for self defense given today's modern bullet design.

Sure some people use the 10mm as a backpacking bear defense or even hunting round, but that is not a lot of people.

I doubt LE would adopt it simply due to the recoil, so no government contracts. That is how we ended up with the .40 S&W.

It is a fun round to shoot, just not much market for it.

One would think it would be easy to tool up on the current frames, but maybe they do not want to chance failures running a 10mm on a 40 or 45 frame.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 11:51 AM   #5
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It would work fine in a 45 frame ... and ... you'd be surprised at the number of people that own and shoot 10mm regularly. After all ... Starline brass is 'Frequently' on backorder for 10mm and they run it in 250k lots!

The 10mm crowds tend to be the guys that don't even get on the internet around here! I hear it day in and day out .... "I guess we'll never buy another 10mm Smith!" ...

For the record ... there are at least 20 guys that shoot 10mm Major PF at my local Club for IPSC! Coming from a range that only has around 2k members ... multiply that times 100 or more across the US! That's being conservative! That's a MINIMUM of 2,000 shooters that shoot it in IPSC, and again ... that's being VERY Conservative! Just get on Youtube and do a 'Search' for "Glock Model 40" ... you'll be amazed!

Saying "There isn't much of an interest in it ... it wouldn't sell" ... is like saying no one owns or shoots 357 Sig or 41 Magnum. If we're using that logic ... why not just stop making pistols in those calibers altogether?

Oh well ... I guess I'll just keep paying Sig $1200 everytime I want a decent 10mm that works!

Last edited by RoosterShooter; January 31st, 2017 at 11:53 AM.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 03:05 PM   #6
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Rooster, you don't need to convince us, but S&W.

They have a huge aging population of shooters and I discussed a red dot ready 9c with them. It was a non-starter. They can sell all the guns they can make so the bean counters win. Yeah, it sux.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 03:24 PM   #7
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Where I have property, you would be surprised at how many people carry 10mm. Personally, I carry .40(10 mm short) A friend of mine picks up his Glock 20 every time he leaves the house, and especially during deer hunting season. Many people like the load up here because of bear. That's pretty much the only reason. Not many 1911's. If there weren't certain critters up here, it wouldn't be nearly as popular, but the caliber is being carried.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 06:41 PM   #8
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10mm is cool and in demand but, not like 9mm.... 10 more years and I bet 40 Short and Wimpy will be a thing of the past... If I was the backwoods type in bear country I'd own a Glock 10mm but, I'd rather have the M&P in 10mm.... 45 acp is cool but, it's not gonna do what a 10 will for ya.

Couldn't the 10mm be pretty simple to build on a 45 acp frame that smith already has going??
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Old January 31st, 2017, 08:35 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by aaron1984 View Post
......

Couldn't the 10mm be pretty simple to build on a 45 acp frame that smith already has going??

Very easily. That's the very thing that Glock and Sig have done. Sig didn't even change the model designation ... it's a Sig 220 10mm instead of Sig 220 45acp!


As for the 40 S&W ... I don't knock it, because I like it also. I tend to shoot a lot of 'Target' and 'Defense' with 40 S&W just because it's a lighter recoil than the 10mm. However ... I'm a reloader so when I buy my yearly allotment of .400 diameter bullets ... I add a little more for loading both 10mm and 40 S&W. If I really want some 'screamers' ... I load the 40 S&W and 10mm both with 135 gr. Nosler bullets. I can stretch them out to around 1300 fps with Blue Dot in 40 S&W and around 1450 fps with 10mm and Blue Dot.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 08:40 PM   #10
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There`s no market for S&W making a 10mm. Remember folks, they have fat CEO`s to feed, and not many people would buy a 10mm. The 10mm crowd is very tiny.
They`ll sell thousands of 9mm before they`d ever sell a 10mm. The 9mm M&P is their cash cow.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 11:20 PM   #11
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Yup, it's all about profit vs tooling, and the bean counters.
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Old February 1st, 2017, 03:28 AM   #12
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Folks have been saying the 40S&W is a dying round for a long while yet it is still here and still hotter then a 10mm if it wasnt Smith would be building 10mm not 40 SW guns.

So which round will be going the way of he dinosaurs?

Ill put my cash down that its the 10 before the 40.




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Old February 1st, 2017, 05:53 AM   #13
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I`m living the "bean counter" syndrome right now where i work. A VERY VERY large company came in about 4yrs ago, bought out the company i work for... they are killing off alot of product we make, because they only want the product that makes them money to feed their fat ass CEO`s. So the people/customers that once needed or wanted a particular part that we made, it will no longer be available to them. Kind of how its going to work out for the 10mm and soon after, the .40 cal. Even though there are still alot of them still out there in the field, once they`re gone, they`re gone. Like Brian K said, its all about the profit, not about the product. We are a nation of greed, not a nation caring about its people or what they need or want. Power & money are the root of all evil.
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Old February 1st, 2017, 06:55 AM   #14
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10mm is cool and in demand but, not like 9mm.... 10 more years and I bet 40 Short and Wimpy will be a thing of the past... If I was the backwoods type in bear country I'd own a Glock 10mm but, I'd rather have the M&P in 10mm.... 45 acp is cool but, it's not gonna do what a 10 will for ya.

Couldn't the 10mm be pretty simple to build on a 45 acp frame that smith already has going??
.40 cal. isn't going anywhere. If it wasn't for bears, 10mm would be by the wayside. Dinosaur. Too expensive, too much recoil for the average shooter, and really no need for the round. I'll keep my .40's and be shooting them forever while the 10mm fades away in to the sunset. .40 and .45 and .357 are more than capable for any type of business. I guarantee, you couldn't take more than one short and wimpy...............................

Last edited by berettabone; February 1st, 2017 at 06:57 AM.
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Old February 1st, 2017, 09:33 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by berettabone View Post
.40 cal. isn't going anywhere. If it wasn't for bears, 10mm would be by the wayside. Dinosaur. Too expensive, too much recoil for the average shooter, and really no need for the round. I'll keep my .40's and be shooting them forever while the 10mm fades away in to the sunset. .40 and .45 and .357 are more than capable for any type of business. I guarantee, you couldn't take more than one short and wimpy...............................

Evidently you've never fired a 10mm. After all ... it has less Felt Recoil than a 45 ACP.
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