M&P 2.0 Differences I See - Page 2 - MP-Pistol Forum

M&P 2.0 Differences I See

This is a discussion on M&P 2.0 Differences I See within the MP Full Size Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Stop the presses! I just discovered something fairly significant with the red striker channel liner... It has a few grooves down its length, on the ...


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Old March 6th, 2017, 04:12 AM   #16
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Stop the presses!

I just discovered something fairly significant with the red striker channel liner... It has a few grooves down its length, on the inner diameter side of the sleeve, instead of being smooth like the previous white liner. Why could this be significant? It looks to me to aid in two ways:
  1. This would provide less friction for the striker as it moves.
  2. This creates addition hydraulic channels for water to pass by the striker if filled with water. (In addition to the drain hole at the front of the striker channel itself.)

My belief is that this was done to overcome the hydro-lock situation that could occur with the previous design, and one that was highlighted to Military Arms Channel during their "Gauntlet" test of the first-gen M&P.

I do not want to try to upstage the great work done my mp9werks, but thought that this would be the perfect place to show a significant difference.

The downside for S&W is that every gen-1 M&P owner will now be calling to get the new red sleeve to upgrade their M&P's.

Last edited by gglass; March 6th, 2017 at 04:29 AM.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 06:00 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglass View Post
Stop the presses!

I just discovered something fairly significant with the red striker channel liner... It has a few grooves down its length, on the inner diameter side of the sleeve, instead of being smooth like the previous white liner. Why could this be significant? It looks to me to aid in two ways:
  1. This would provide less friction for the striker as it moves.
  2. This creates addition hydraulic channels for water to pass by the striker if filled with water. (In addition to the drain hole at the front of the striker channel itself.)

My belief is that this was done to overcome the hydro-lock situation that could occur with the previous design, and one that was highlighted to Military Arms Channel during their "Gauntlet" test of the first-gen M&P.

I do not want to try to upstage the great work done my mp9werks, but thought that this would be the perfect place to show a significant difference.

The downside for S&W is that every gen-1 M&P owner will now be calling to get the new red sleeve to upgrade their M&P's.
S&W "might" have changed it just enough for it not to interchange...marketing strategy. We`ll see though... i`m sure people will try regardless, including me. Its likely cheap enough to buy, so its worth a shot as they say...lol. Nice observation gglass...!
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Old March 6th, 2017, 06:05 AM   #18
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Once I get my 2.0 you can bet I'll be tearing apart both guns completely and swapping things. Why? Because I love to work on things and I'm not carrying so I'm not too worried about warranty/liability. If a gun can shoot a couple hundred rounds without malfunction, it's good enough for HD purpose IMO.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 06:13 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by blackhawk556 View Post
The big question is whether an apex kit is absolutely still necessary as soon as you buy one?

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I will vote "surely yes" on adding the apex parts to the M2.0 guns. Look at the flat top safety plunger for instance, its still the same design as the 1.0. Probably the same part number used in both guns. The triggers have improved in the M2.0, but its still lacking in my opinion. Apex wont loose any business, thats foolish to even think that. There are STILL lots of 1.0 guns out there, and i myself would update the M2.0 with apex parts without a thought for one second.

Another thing i noticed with the M2.0`s, longer slide rails... now even more friction. Sorry guys, i`m just not a fanboy of the M2.0 just quite yet. Dont get me wrong guys/gals, the M2.0 is a good gun, but personally, its just not there "for me" yet.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 06:42 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
S&W "might" have changed it just enough for it not to interchange...marketing strategy. We`ll see though... i`m sure people will try regardless, including me. Its likely cheap enough to buy, so its worth a shot as they say...lol. Nice observation gglass...!
Interchangeability-blocking was my first thought when I saw the red liner, but that was quickly dispelled when I exchanged them between the different generation guns and everything functioned as expected.

I don't believe that it is just my wild guess on the hydraulic function of the longitudinal channels. Just by observation, one can plainly see that they would perform the same function of the hydraulic cups that are used in some handguns like Glocks. Water simply needs a place to go as it cannot be compressed, and the drain hole in the slide is just one avenue for this. As the stiker is forcing its way forward, any water that has not had a chance to drain will still need a way around the striker and these channels provide exactly that. So instead of putting grooves in the cup, you simply put grooves in the surrounding channel... You get the same effect.

Another proof that something has changed is to go look at some of the newly posted videos of M&P 2.0 durability testing and everyone is trying to make the new M&P hydrolock, without success. I won't say that hydrolock was a huge issue with the first-gen M&Ps, but the Gauntlet video posted by MAC was pretty damning and I do believe that S&W took notice, and I believe this new sleeve is part of their remedial action.

Last edited by gglass; March 6th, 2017 at 07:00 AM.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:34 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglass View Post
Interchangeability-blocking was my first thought when I saw the red liner, but that was quickly dispelled when I exchanged them between the different generation guns and everything functioned as expected.

I don't believe that it is just my wild guess on the hydraulic function of the longitudinal channels. Just by observation, one can plainly see that they would perform the same function of the hydraulic cups that are used in some handguns like Glocks. Water simply needs a place to go as it cannot be compressed, and the drain hole in the slide is just one avenue for this. As the stiker is forcing its way forward, any water that has not had a chance to drain will still need a way around the striker and these channels provide exactly that. So instead of putting grooves in the cup, you simply put grooves in the surrounding channel... You get the same effect.

Another proof that something has changed is to go look at some of the newly posted videos of M&P 2.0 durability testing and everyone is trying to make the new M&P hydrolock, without success. I won't say that hydrolock was a huge issue with the first-gen M&Ps, but the Gauntlet video posted by MAC was pretty damning and I do believe that S&W took notice, and I believe this new sleeve is part of their remedial action.
I`m starting to buy into your theories dam`it
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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:49 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglass View Post
Interchangeability-blocking was my first thought when I saw the red liner, but that was quickly dispelled when I exchanged them between the different generation guns and everything functioned as expected.

I don't believe that it is just my wild guess on the hydraulic function of the longitudinal channels. Just by observation, one can plainly see that they would perform the same function of the hydraulic cups that are used in some handguns like Glocks. Water simply needs a place to go as it cannot be compressed, and the drain hole in the slide is just one avenue for this. As the stiker is forcing its way forward, any water that has not had a chance to drain will still need a way around the striker and these channels provide exactly that. So instead of putting grooves in the cup, you simply put grooves in the surrounding channel... You get the same effect.

Another proof that something has changed is to go look at some of the newly posted videos of M&P 2.0 durability testing and everyone is trying to make the new M&P hydrolock, without success. I won't say that hydrolock was a huge issue with the first-gen M&Ps, but the Gauntlet video posted by MAC was pretty damning and I do believe that S&W took notice, and I believe this new sleeve is part of their remedial action.
Which Video are you looking at showing the new version not hydro locking?

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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:53 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
I will vote "surely yes" on adding the apex parts to the M2.0 guns. Look at the flat top safety plunger for instance, its still the same design as the 1.0. Probably the same part number used in both guns. The triggers have improved in the M2.0, but its still lacking in my opinion. Apex wont loose any business, thats foolish to even think that. There are STILL lots of 1.0 guns out there, and i myself would update the M2.0 with apex parts without a thought for one second.

Another thing i noticed with the M2.0`s, longer slide rails... now even more friction. Sorry guys, i`m just not a fanboy of the M2.0 just quite yet. Dont get me wrong guys/gals, the M2.0 is a good gun, but personally, its just not there "for me" yet.
Won't the longer rails allow the slide to stay in place and not move around for a longer period of time giving it more accuracy?

Look at the cz sp01, doesn't that gun have really long rails and people say the accuracy is amazing? I know mine is.

I think complaining about the longer rails is just a made up problem from internet commandos

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Old March 6th, 2017, 08:26 AM   #24
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@ Blackhawk556
Absolutely agree.
A lot of guns have full length rails ("guides").
Worrying about extra friction is absolutely irrelevant.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 10:18 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gglass View Post
Stop the presses!

I just discovered something fairly significant with the red striker channel liner... It has a few grooves down its length, on the inner diameter side of the sleeve, instead of being smooth like the previous white liner.
Brief history lesson:

The original M&P's striker channel guide tube had a smooth lined inner wall; it also had had a fenestrated forward edge, the nominal width of each "tooth" was the same as the diameter of the relief port (as found in most striker fired designs), potentially completely blocking the port if the channel guide rotated or installed improperly. The "spring cups" that secured the striker spring to the striker were closely fitted to the inner diameter of the channel liner. The combination of all these elements allowed little room for any fluid (water or lubrication) to egress and prevent hydraulic dampening of the striker firing action potentially resulting in inadequate primer strikes.







In 2009 a revised grey channel liner (virtually identical to the Glock 17) was incorporated in the striker mechanism. As shown, there were longitudinal flow channels for fluid as well as a reduced spring cup to inner wall surface area for friction to occur.




Originally designed for Glock, the maritime spring cups were installed to replace their spring cups when pistol water submersion was a real mission possibility. Also shown is the original M&P style striker that I fitted the maritime cups.









I posted similar information on this forum in 2009.


Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos & diagrams may be embedded in this post.

Last edited by mp9werks; March 6th, 2017 at 02:24 PM.
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Old March 6th, 2017, 07:56 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ben74 View Post
@ Blackhawk556
Absolutely agree.
A lot of guns have full length rails ("guides").
Worrying about extra friction is absolutely irrelevant.
To a gun thats already very tight, (the M&P) and hard for some people to fully rack, i can see where that can be, and is, a problem, for some people to work the slide. But lets not get to worked up about it guys, its just my own opinion....ok...??? I dont want this to become the usual pissin contest, it was just my own observation with M&P guns and how stiff they are compared to others makes. Other guns with "full rails & guides" i`ve owned in the past, and have also tried out, were very well made high quality guns, by far alot more precision built than the M&P`s, the slides on some felt as though they were riding on ball bearings....super smooth, unlike the M&P`s. Again, just my observation & opinion, thats all.
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Old March 7th, 2017, 05:56 AM   #27
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Thanks so much for the time you put in to do this write up!
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Old March 11th, 2017, 05:37 AM   #28
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Forum limits on # of photos per posting, so below are more differences to see between M2.0 & M1.0.

The 0.02" thick U-shaped forward steel chassis has been extended to the leading edge of the dust cover. The exposed edges are very sharp!! I beveled mine.


Width of M2.0 slide at forward breech ~ 0.1” narrower; similar widths (~1.09”) at rear of slide.




Ejection port dimensions & profiles are different; lowered (0.03") ejection window and opened corner contour at rear wall.





Extractor claw profile is different:


Barrel feed ramp profile – improve reliability.
Barrel-breech geometry profile is different.
Chamber indicator aperture is 0.05” smaller on slide side.




Finger recess to assist grasping magazine for removal.


Caution: Pseudo-Science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.

Last edited by mp9werks; March 23rd, 2017 at 01:49 AM.
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Old March 11th, 2017, 06:22 AM   #29
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All this work and effort should become a sticky
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Old March 11th, 2017, 06:16 PM   #30
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Very informative. Thank you for your time and effort
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