APEX Sear and RAM - Light Primer Strike? - MP-Pistol Forum

APEX Sear and RAM - Light Primer Strike?

This is a discussion on APEX Sear and RAM - Light Primer Strike? within the MP Gunsmithing forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Hi guys... i tried googling this topic but couldn't find it in the forums so I'm sorry if I'm double posting. So here's what's going ...


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Old September 8th, 2012, 04:59 PM   #1
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Unhappy APEX Sear and RAM - Light Primer Strike?

Hi guys... i tried googling this topic but couldn't find it in the forums so I'm sorry if I'm double posting. So here's what's going on.

I just bought my M&P 40c 2 weeks ago and took it out on the range. Shot 300+ rounds of UMC, Winchester BJHP, and LAX reloads flawlessly. Was very happy with the purchase.

I decided to install the APEX Sear and RAM(mag disconnect version). Got 10 light primer strikes out of 300 rounds of UMC, Walmart Federal champion, and LAX reloads. WTF!

So I put the M&P back to stock settings and put UMC, WinchesterWB, and LAX reloads through it-flawless... except for the Tulammo that kept failing to engage the slide-weak cartridges.

My question is, do I need the other APEX parts like the APEX M&P Duty/Carry Spring Kit and/or APEX USB to work in conjunction to fix the light primer strikes? Does anyone know what's causing it? Thanks in advance.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #2
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Have you in any way lubed the striker assembly?
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Old September 8th, 2012, 06:14 PM   #3
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I did not lube the striker assembly and to make sure.. I shot some keyboard air cleaner through it and it was clear.. It shot fine without the APEX sear and RAM..
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Old September 8th, 2012, 10:19 PM   #4
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I would try running the sear and the RAM individually, just to find out which if either one were contributing to the cause of the problem.

I'd also contact Randy or Scott at Apex.
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Old September 8th, 2012, 10:49 PM   #5
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Are the primers dented? If not, you might want to make sure you have the larger sear plunger before you start bugging Randy Lee and Flork (although they'd be glad to help you out, too).
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Old September 9th, 2012, 06:18 AM   #6
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Thanks jasonuscg and KRWeiss for the info. I will keep this post updated as I test along.. I will test the parts separately. There were dents/dimples on the cartridges.

I think the sear plunger size is the larger, heavier one since this is a newer m&p model bought 2 weeks ago but I will definitely double check the size.. But I might be slow to test til next pay day--ammo is expensive.

Last edited by C1ggy; September 9th, 2012 at 08:13 AM.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 09:54 AM   #7
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Here's an update for you guys wondering about my issue.. I contacted APEX tactical and got some interesting news..

It turns out that if you have an "S" stamped trigger bar (current, new m&p models), the current apex sear will NOT be compatible. Due to the trigger bar being approx 0.0010" shorter(Hence the "S" for short) is throw the engagement point off.

We are still in the process of working out an agreement for my issue.
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Old September 11th, 2012, 10:12 AM   #8
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Good to know, thanks for the update!

Hopefully others will see this if they run into the same issue or carefully consider their purchases if they have these newer M&Ps with said trigger bar.

I'm sure Apex will be annotating their product's web pages regarding the change to the trigger bar.

It sounds like you are in good hands with Apex, they'll take care of you. Let us know how that works out.
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Old September 20th, 2012, 08:47 AM   #9
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Any update from Apex?

I *did* see this thread before I ordered, and I do have the "S" trigger bar. I sent an email query to Apex today, and am awaiting a reply. In the interim, has anyone else received an update? I was excited to purchase this upgrade for my new M&P9, based on the enthusistic reviews in this forum, but I'll hold off until this issue is clarified or resolved. Thanks, in advance!
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Old September 20th, 2012, 09:19 AM   #10
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That is weird ... I also have an "S" version of the trigger bar AND the Apex sear, USB, RAM and duty carry spring set and have had ZERO problems. ammo shot: winchester whitebox 115grn , remington range ammo 115grn, herters (s&b) 125grn, aguila 115grn & winchester sxt bonded 147 grn ??????? It maybe one of those "luck of the draw" problems
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Old September 20th, 2012, 04:23 PM   #11
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Update from Apex...

I received a reply from ATS to my query of earlier today. It seems that maybe it is a "luck of the draw" type of issue. I was told:

"It should function fine in your firearm, but we are working on a revised Sear that should mitigate any further issues. There is a small percentage of the "S" Type triggers [trigger bars] that are having issues compared to the majority of M&P's on the market, but we are actively pursuing solutions."

So, maybe it will be fine in my firearm, or maybe I'll be among the small percentage that experience a problem. Hmmm.... I'd really prefer certainty to probability. Maybe I need to call them.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 09:50 AM   #12
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I received the "S" type sear and tried it out this weekend. On Friday, the gun had 7 light primer strikes out of 250 rounds of 180grn UMC and Winchester 180grn.

I removed the "S" sear and put the stock sear back then went to range again yesterday. Shot 200 rounds of UMC issue free. Seems the gun works fine on stock parts. But my faith in Apex is slowly fading.

Maybe it's my gun? Should I get it checked out by an armoror? Am i one of those few people having the issues? I've sent a follow up email to Apex to see if there's another thing going on.

So far, my m&p 40c has roughly 1250 rounds through it if anyone was wondering.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 11:38 AM   #13
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C1ggy, who are you talking to at Apex?

I've swapped emails with Jon. He told me that around 1 - 2 percent of the M&Ps they've worked on exhibit any "substantial" manifestation of this issue. I'm assuming it's a tolerance stack-up problem. I got the impression that they didn't yet have any formal S-type sear parts, i.e., a redesigned profile. Maybe you received a "beta" version, or maybe just a hand selected one.

As you say, any occurence rate of light primer strikes would erode confidence in the reliability of your firearm. If your use include HD or SD, that's a big problem. OTOH, others with the S-type trigegr bar report seeing no problems at all, hence the 1 - 2 percent occurence rate.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 12:16 PM   #14
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Yeah... I wouldn't make it such a big deal but this is my back-up gun for HD. It really bugs me that it doesn't go bang every time.

Just an FYI, while I was swapping emails with Jon, I guess he got a heads up from Randy to send me a prototype "S" sear.
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Old September 23rd, 2012, 04:22 PM   #15
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I just checked mine out of curiosity and have the S bar as well. However I'm lucky that I don't have issues w my Comp kit and USB
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