Slide hanging - MP-Pistol Forum

Slide hanging

This is a discussion on Slide hanging within the MP Gunsmithing forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Yes, a couple of times with both of my shields I have caught them with the slide in the rearward out of battery position from ...


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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:24 PM   #1
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Slide hanging

Yes, a couple of times with both of my shields I have caught them with the slide in the rearward out of battery position from just being bumped.

In my fanny pack and a couple times in my front coat pocket.

OK, I know a holster helps prevent this, but that is not the subject matter.

The slide gets bumped rearward and the combination of the magazine tension with loaded rounds pushing up against the slide pick up rail and the chambered round makes this happen.

I have noticed that if you just pull the trigger that the reset tab will push the cam forward and the slide will go into battery. Now the question is; will the slide be in full lock up if the round goes off slightly out of battery or will the gun just not fire, or be a light or 6 o'clock hit on the primer?

I tried this tonight on an empty and it seems to get into battery in time? Has anyone tried it with a live round?
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:50 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by redwing57 View Post
My Shield does this, only with a magazine installed. It seems like it could be binding at the reset tab, exacerbated by the friction from the magazine's top round rubbing against the extractor bar. What adjustment did you make to the reset tab's position? I'm really curious about that one. It seems too that my trigger bar may be pressing against the frame without enough clearance, and the slide's reset bump really pushes it hard to the frame. I slipped a piece of paper in there and checked when it was movable. At the moment of reset, the paper locked hard in place, so there is no clearance at all. 0.006" paper thickness got locked in place hard when the slide was in this out-of-battery position. Very frustrating.

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OK, it is a fact that one of my reset loops was out of adjustment, but that was not the problem with the hanging slide syndrome. It is not extractor tension either. Did you know that all three caliber shields use the same extractor? They will al push feed too with damaging the extractor. I have shot both guns 300 plus rounds and they both still will be bumped inadvertently out of battery to the rear a 1.4 to half an inch. I really believe it is the sharp angle of the barrel unlocking and the magazine tension of the first three of four rounds that cause this. If you pull the trigger the slide will move forward, but I cannot answer as to whether or not the gun will fire out of battery or not. After testing one this evening with an empty case, I am betting they will fire in battery or not fire at all?
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:54 PM   #3
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This was a good post in the shield forum.

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Consider determining if the slide moves fully into battery, i.e. completely forward, without a magazine or a round in the chamber. If so, then add one round to the magazine and try it, if so, then add 2 rounds etc.

When the slide is released forward, the compressed recoil guide rod spring energy of expansion is retarded by the presence of the top round in the magazine that has to be stripped out of the new magazine lips and still have enough energy to drive the slide forward and chamber the round.

It may well be that the new fully loaded magazine has too much friction for the guide rod spring to overcome, this generally will improve as the magazine gets some use. The more rounds loaded into the magazine increase the top round compression friction against the lips of the magazine; this same process of overcoming increasingly greater magazine spring compression energy is why some experience difficulty seating a fully loaded magazine except during loading the problem is occurring at the bottom of the magazine not the top as it might be in the OP's case.

As a matter of good gun etiquette, you should always check to make sure your slide is fully in battery as you complete its holstering, using the the thumb of your grip hand to ensure it is, doing so assures that the process of holstering does not allow the gun to move out-of-battery during the holstering; that way, when you draw your gun from the holster, it will be in full battery and ready to use.
~ 1/8" out of battery and the M&P's will not fire. Correct repetition trains the subconscious mind.

It does not matter if you sling shot the slide, in a properly working gun only releasing the slide stop will allow the slide to move into full battery. Unless you get your legs involved or sights against a rigid surface, you will find it quite difficult to attempt the method of slingshoting the slide with just one hand when one of your arms is injured or tied up dragging your buddy out of harms way. Learn both methods that are equally effective.

You do not want a "relaxed" guide rod spring, it would only contribute to the problem of insufficient expansion energy to power the slide forward. Leaving the slide in the rearward locked position will not change the spring coil energy to a more relaxed state; nor will leaving your magazines fully loaded "weaken" the springs. These issues were investigated by the military decades ago and determined to be folklore.

Caution: Pseudo-science or amateur photographs may be embedded in this post
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Old November 29th, 2015, 08:56 PM   #4
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When the slide hangs, one can simply release the magazine and the slide falls forward. This indicates magazine pressure of the casing against the pickup rail as a major cause of this malady.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 09:59 AM   #5
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OK, testing now on live rounds with eye and hand protection. Will be back in a little while with results.
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Old November 30th, 2015, 10:32 AM   #6
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Welding gloves and eye protection and under a piece of plexiglass I tested my 9mm Shield and here is what happened.

Fully loaded 8 rounder and one in the chamber I pushed the slide back till it hung and then pulled the trigger. The slide went forward and into battery and did NOT FIRE!
I repeated this three times and then on the fourth time I let up on the trigger for it to re-set and the gun fired. I repeated this three times.

Over this again so misunderstandings.

When you pull the trigger and the slide is hung back on the friction of the loaded magazine and the top round against the pickup rail is causing the slide to hang back 300 or so thousands. The slide will move forward into battery and the Pistol will not fire unless you let off the trigger and allow the trigger to reset. Ok, now I will experiment with mag tension and springs IF I CAN BUY SOME EXTRA SPRINGS? OK,,I feel better and kudos to those with much wisdom and the information here on the forum but I AM AN OLD HARDHEADED RETIRED COP so I have to see for myself. Yes, I am a 3 % too!
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Old December 1st, 2015, 04:32 AM   #7
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WOW....................
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Old December 26th, 2015, 10:39 PM   #8
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OK, I am still working on the fix for this problem on the shield, It si NOT ALL THE MAGAZINE PRESSURE on the pickup rail. It is the lock up coupled with a round in the chamber. Some how the locking block, barrel underlugs and chamber are all binding to form this hang up of the slide to the rear a couple hundred thousand, I drew my pistol from my fanny pack again the other day on my walk and it was hung back. This​ is the cae on both my shields. I am gonna figure this out and my next move is to call someone AGAIN at smith and talk to them about it.
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Old December 26th, 2015, 10:43 PM   #9
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I have ruled out magazine and extractor pressure. There is no significant breach face contact, the sides of the barrel are not rubbing harshly in the slide and the dims all appear to be enough space to move freely with no rub marks. 100 ROUNDS THROUGH THIS ONE AND IT HAS NOT CHANGED AT ALL, maybe 150 or so. Wish I had a 9mm finish reamer, I'd check the headspace and see how tight the chamber is?
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Old December 27th, 2015, 03:32 AM   #10
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Hmmmmm...... I wonder why no one has posted a cure for this...

Everyone is speechless.. me thinks...
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Old December 27th, 2015, 07:39 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo38GN View Post
Hmmmmm...... I wonder why no one has posted a cure for this...

Everyone is speechless.. me thinks...


I certainly am!
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Old December 27th, 2015, 07:42 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo38GN View Post
Hmmmmm...... I wonder why no one has posted a cure for this...

Everyone is speechless.. me thinks...

I've been curiously watching myself as mine does the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Old December 27th, 2015, 08:03 AM   #13
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My Shield has never failed to return to battery (FTRB); the condition you describe. But there is a noticeable "hitch" when the action is slowly hand cycled. I believe the "hitch"'is the upper locking lug on the barrel (the front of the barrel hood) interacting with the locking lug on the slide (front of the ejection port) as the barrel is rising up into full battery.

A little judicious stoning/polishing of the two (do NOT round off the edges) will likely take care of your problem.
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Old December 27th, 2015, 10:21 AM   #14
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I found it, I know now what causes it so let people know and it is with every single M&P Shield. If your slide gets bumped from the front in a fanny pack or whatever and it needs to be bumped back into battery? Here is the cause.
OOOOOKKKKKKKKKK, I KNOW THERE are A COUPLE GUYS ON HERE THAT KNOW WHATS HAPPENING and are not saying, but I THINK I just found it.
Take your slide off and then remove the recoil spring. You will notice THIS;; THE SLIDE, YES REALLY THE STRIKER, HANGS ON THE SEAR TO PRE-COCK THE FIREARM,dahhhhhhhh!
There is no way around this and it is NOT gonna break in. The recoil spring simply does not have the power to overcome the striker spring at such a short run. THERE YA GO BINGO AND I am the king! Happy Hollys
The exact amount the slide is hanging to the rear is the exact amount of pre-cock in the striker sear relationship.

Last edited by Warf51; December 27th, 2015 at 10:31 AM.
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Old December 28th, 2015, 02:30 AM   #15
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Well, that just kind of makes sense! Congrats!
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