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Want to do the Burwell trigger job

This is a discussion on Want to do the Burwell trigger job within the MP Gunsmithing forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Originally Posted by Bill in Tx It will if you remove material per the Burwell DIY PaPow. It did make the trigger smoother due to ...


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Old December 16th, 2016, 02:46 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Tx View Post
It will if you remove material per the Burwell DIY PaPow. It did make the trigger smoother due to the polishing, but I lost at least a lb. in trigger pull weight as I recall.

As a point of information, I still use that sear in one of my .40 caliber Shields. Lowered the trigger pull weight in that gun also.
I find that very hard to believe, i`d like to see that proved to me on a digital trigger gauge.
Friction before and after, is more believable... maybe its a perceived change...? (you`re thinkin it changed, but actually didnt)

Last edited by PaPow; December 16th, 2016 at 02:49 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 07:13 AM   #17
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One bit about polishing that made a significant difference in the grittiness of my 40fs was polishing the striker block hole. Mine had a burr where the striker block goes through the firing pin tunnel and that was creating some drag on the striker block. Once I got that ground off, things were much better and the rest of the Burwell polishing finished the job. Still, the addition of the Apex striker block and sear was a distinct improvement. If I had to do it over, I'd skip the Burwell job and just add the Apex stuff and be done with it. Now if money was an issue, just polish and call it good.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 07:32 AM   #18
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Polish all that you want, it will help, don't remove material unless you REALLY know WTF you're doing, I followed the PDF on one of my M&P's, all seemed well but, then I realized that my trigger bar would slide off of the sear at the engagement surface if the stars lined up just right. You can buy a few parts from APEX for cheap. I'm assuming this advice for anyone who is using their M&P for defensive use, if it's just a range toy, go for it but, you'd hate to find out your DIY trigger job caused a failure to fire when your life is on the line...
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Old December 17th, 2016, 09:01 AM   #19
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Here is some information on a standard M&P sear and a Burwell modified sear. Modifying the sear should be done in small steps, re-installing, checking etc, as well as good lighting, magnification and proper files / stones.

Depending on goals, Burwell modifications can change two aspects independently; trigger pull weight and trigger re-set distance.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424//Screen%20Shot%202016-12-17%20at%2011.38.29%20AM_zps6zxpkemg.png[/IMG]
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424//Screen%20Shot%202016-12-17%20at%2011.37.14%20AM_zps3utzf4bx.png[/IMG]http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424//Screen%20Shot%202016-12-17%20at%2011.37.37%20AM_zpsvyngsxfm.png[/IMG]

Burwell's modification can change the trigger pull weight by removing material from the rear horizontal surface of the sear thus ever so slightly lowering its vertical height engagement with the sear; the material is NOT removed directly from the vertical surface of the sear but the net effect is the same as you can see from the angle of the dotted black line in the diagram below.
http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee424//Screen%20Shot%202016-12-17%20at%2011.39.28%20AM_zpszeeszti2.png[/IMG]

Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos & diagrams may be embedded in this post.

Last edited by mp9werks; December 22nd, 2016 at 04:21 PM.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 09:50 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougM View Post
One bit about polishing that made a significant difference in the grittiness of my 40fs was polishing the striker block hole. Mine had a burr where the striker block goes through the firing pin tunnel and that was creating some drag on the striker block. Once I got that ground off, things were much better and the rest of the Burwell polishing finished the job. Still, the addition of the Apex striker block and sear was a distinct improvement. If I had to do it over, I'd skip the Burwell job and just add the Apex stuff and be done with it. Now if money was an issue, just polish and call it good.
There ya gooooo.... GREAT advice
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Old December 17th, 2016, 09:55 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by aaron1984 View Post
Polish all that you want, it will help, don't remove material unless you REALLY know WTF you're doing, I followed the PDF on one of my M&P's, all seemed well but, then I realized that my trigger bar would slide off of the sear at the engagement surface if the stars lined up just right. You can buy a few parts from APEX for cheap. I'm assuming this advice for anyone who is using their M&P for defensive use, if it's just a range toy, go for it but, you'd hate to find out your DIY trigger job caused a failure to fire when your life is on the line...
Absolutely no argument there...! I find only a VERY VERY few, that actually know what they`re doing. Most just THINK they do. Those are the dining room table gunsmiths. Reminds me of an old saying.... yezderday i coon`t spel macanick, bout me sim rinch`s, today i r 1.
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Old December 17th, 2016, 10:08 AM   #22
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This can make one think it lightens trigger pull, but ONLY because the pull is shorter and takes "less effort" to complete the FULL PULL. And if you don`t change the trigger spring, spring rate does not change the amount of pressure against your finger. Longer grittier triggers require more effort. Cleaning/polishing up things ONLY makes them easier to pull.

I would like to see side by side comparison videos, UNEDITED, of before and after, with a digital trigger gage.
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Old December 18th, 2016, 02:09 PM   #23
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Thanks for the lesson Werks! All I could have offered was what my trigger pull gauge said after I finished with the Burwell DIY, which might not have been believed.
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Old December 20th, 2016, 12:11 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
This can make one think it lightens trigger pull, but ONLY because the pull is shorter and takes "less effort" to complete the FULL PULL. And if you don`t change the trigger spring, spring rate does not change the amount of pressure against your finger. Longer grittier triggers require more effort. Cleaning/polishing up things ONLY makes them easier to pull.
Maybe it's just me, but I am struggling to comprehend the difference between "it lightens trigger pull" and "takes less effort".
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Old December 20th, 2016, 09:53 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by cpsmith58 View Post
Maybe it's just me, but I am struggling to comprehend the difference between "it lightens trigger pull" and "takes less effort".
Smooth or gritty, a 6lb trigger spring is STILL a 6lb pound trigger spring. Its STILL going to pull at the same pound rate.
I think some people read to much into it, thinking its hugely lighter... no, its not, really,
your still pulling against the same spring, unless you`ve changed the spring.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 02:49 PM   #26
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Some folks are recommending Apex parts rather than doing the Burwell thing myself.

OK fine, I am at 4 lbs or so now with a Duty trigger, what parts to I buy from Apex to lower and how low can I go just buying parts?

This is not a self defense gun, it will be used in USPSA.
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Old December 21st, 2016, 08:52 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by cpsmith58 View Post
Some folks are recommending Apex parts rather than doing the Burwell thing myself.

OK fine, I am at 4 lbs or so now with a Duty trigger, what parts to I buy from Apex to lower and how low can I go just buying parts?

This is not a self defense gun, it will be used in USPSA.
Going with APEX parts is going to be alot easier to do than the Burwell trigger job. With the Burwell trigger job, you better be real good at trigger jobs if your planning on doing it by yourself. It is NOT for the faint at heart... it is very tedious.

Best advice i can tell you my friend, is to call APEX, they will tell you exactly what you need to get where you wanna be with your gun. They know their parts better than anyone on the forums. They can tell you exactly what works for your particular application... or even if it will work at all.

Forums are pretty much made up of opinions. What worked for one guy, might not work for another guy, then the pissin contests begin... well so an so said this would work... and then it dosent... I`m sure you get what i`m saying. Just go call the experts at APEX, and save yourself ALOT of grief. (and money) The guys at APEX are really great guys, and they KNOWWWW what they`re doing.
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Old December 22nd, 2016, 11:42 AM   #28
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Burwell mods

I did the Burwell mods on my M&P 9 FS and also put the Apes Tactical Duty/Carry kit in my Shield. My Burwell mods made a great difference but I like the feel and break of the Duty/Carry kit enough more that I am ordering a kit for my FS. YMMV
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 06:38 AM   #29
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Originally Posted by donhudd View Post
I did the Burwell mods on my M&P 9 FS and also put the Apes Tactical Duty/Carry kit in my Shield. My Burwell mods made a great difference but I like the feel and break of the Duty/Carry kit enough more that I am ordering a kit for my FS. YMMV
The Burwell job does work and works very good, but some people dont have gunsmithing experience. APEX is a great alternative for those who cant do intense gunsmithing on their own. And some people dont know how to install APEX parts properly either. Glad to see your another one that CAN do their own work and it works great for you... god bless, it is a dieing art.
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Old December 23rd, 2016, 06:27 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by DougM View Post
One bit about polishing that made a significant difference in the grittiness of my 40fs was polishing the striker block hole.

What did you polish that with?
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