Remington No.1 1/2 small pistol primers

This is a discussion on Remington No.1 1/2 small pistol primers within the MP Reloading forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; I was having a nice evening loading up some rounds to take to the range tomorrow when I noticed a warning in very small print ...


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Old January 9th, 2010, 09:08 PM   #1
 
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I was having a nice evening loading up some rounds to take to the range tomorrow when I noticed a warning in very small print on the side of the primer box.



"WARNING Do not use 1 1/2 small pistol primers in high intensity pistol cartridges such as 357 Magnum, 357 SIG and the 40 S&W. Damage to your firearm and/or serious personal injury may result."



These primers are not listed as magnum, so why the warning? I have about 500 each of 9mm and 357 SIG loaded up. At least I didn't load any 40 S&W! None of my loads are on the upper end, but I wonder about the SIG loads now. I plan on shooting a few and checking for overpressure signs, but are there any other suggestions?

Thanks
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Old January 10th, 2010, 10:03 PM   #2
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I've never seen that before, but I normally don't use Remington primers, I did get 1,000 but I used those in mild 38 special loads. I would speculate you would do OK as long as the loads are kept on the moderate level, keep an eye on your fired primers to check on how its going.
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Old January 17th, 2010, 09:54 AM   #3
 
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IIRC, those primers have softer cups. Probably a legacy of the days when .38 revolvers were the primary target gun and firing pin strikes (and pressures) were on the wimpy side. Using them at higher pressures could lead to cratered and/or pierced primers. If my recollection is correct, the softer cup will also show false pressure signs since they deform more easily. Checking the Remington website seems to confirm my recollections.



The Remington website has been revamped and leaves a bit to be desired in searching. It does show the Remington 5 1/2 primer to be the proper primer for .357 Magnum and .40 S&W. There is no current listing for 357 Sig, I expect the 5 1/2 to be the recommended primer for that cartridge too. The 1/12 primer was shown as factory spec for 9mm standard and +P loads. I expect you'd be OK, depending upon what the pressure is in your "moderate loads" in 357 Sig, but make no warranty either expressed or implied on the suitability of those primers in your application.



Remember those box warnings are done by lawyers. However, you could have found the same information in about the time it took you to type your original post.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 01:55 PM   #4
 
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OOPS!!!!!!!!!! Second paragraph: the 1/12 primer was supposed to be the 1 1/2 primer. The 1 1/2 primer is apparently good for 9mm +P pressures, not a hard enough cup for the pressures of full power .357 Magnum/.40 S&W/357 Sig.
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Old January 19th, 2010, 06:54 PM   #5
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I have used them in 9MM, .40 and .357Mag loads. The .40's had a few burn thru's and a friend had burn thru on some 9MM's so I no longer use them for any of these loads. I simply used the balance for low power .38Spl.



CCI and Winchester are my preferred primers if available. I recently purchased Large Wolfs and am evaluating them for my .45ACP.
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Old January 20th, 2010, 07:42 PM   #6
 
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Thanks all, for the information. I still haven't had a chance to make it to the shooting range, but hopefully this weekend I will get a few hours of quality range time. I will be looking closely at these loads and will give an update of what I find. I don't think I will waste my time with Remington primers again. Live and learn.
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Old January 21st, 2010, 02:08 AM   #7
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The only primers I've used for 40S&W are CCI 500. Not saying they're the best, but we haven't had a failure in 25,000 rounds and some of those loads were very hot.
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Old January 22nd, 2010, 05:11 PM   #8
 
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Last night I got to exploring data manuals to see if I could figure out if a critical pressure level could be spotted. In the process, I learned that Winchester states that their proper primer for .357 Magnum is the Small Pistol Magnum primer. So, Remington isn't alone in separating primers by pressure level of the loads.



I've used a lot of CCI small pistol in .357 Magnum loads and a lesser amount of WW SP without experiencing any presure related problems. On the other hand, I'm generally not at the upper ends of the pressure spectrum. I do vividly recall almost 40 years later what the primers looked like after my first attempt at 125 gr JHP loads-and I backed the loads down 10+%! Hercules backed the data down by about 1.5 grains shortly thereafter.



After studying the pressure data by Alliant and Winchester, it appears that the .40 S&W exceeds 35,000 psi with regularity, I know that the FBI had issues with the speed at which the round achieves that pressure peak with the 180 grain bullet. .357 Magnum pressures are higher yet, regardless of if we're using CUP or PSI.
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Old January 25th, 2010, 08:51 PM   #9
 
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I finally made it to the range this weekend and test fired some of the 357Sig rounds that I had loaded. My loads were using 11grns AA7 with Speer 125grn FMJ in mixed brass with an OAL of 1.135. I didn't observe any abnormalities in the cases, but some of the primers appeared to have a very slight over pressure indication. None of the primers appeared to be flattened, but several had a raised area where it had expanded slightly into the striker cavity. I don't think these look severe, but I'm not an expert. What do the experts think?

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Old January 27th, 2010, 08:56 PM   #10
 
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I'm not an expert and I don't have a 357 Sig, but I've had occasional 9mm factory +P loads that looked very similar. How do they compare with primers in factory ammo? You also didn't mention what percentage looked like that.



Checking the AA website, there isn't a load listed for the 125 gr Speer. The pressure listed for the listed maximum load of AA#7 (your 11 gr. load!) with a 124 gr Hornaday is 37,100 psi, substantially above the pressure levels given for 9mm loads. As a result, we don't know what pressures your loads develop-other than that they aren't "moderate". The Remington 1 1/2 primer is good for 9mm+P loads (allegedly 38,500 psi). It's kinda dependent upon just what percentage showed those primer deformations when compared to factory loads. I did confirm that the SAAMI pressure limit for 357 Sig is 40,000 psi.



I'd either back the loads down or try other powders. Looking at Alliants reported pressures, it appears that different powders can produce widely different pressure levels at the same velocities. As mentioned above, if factory loads produce about the same percentage of deformed primers....... Reader assumes all risk for any activities discussed.
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