Question: Reload - FTE FTC MP Full Size - MP-Pistol Forum

Question: Reload - FTE FTC MP Full Size

This is a discussion on Question: Reload - FTE FTC MP Full Size within the MP Reloading forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Hi All, I've got a pretty new pretty stock Full Size M&P 9mm. Only modification is an Apex DCAEK. My question is regarding FTC & ...


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Old May 6th, 2014, 12:52 PM   #1
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Question: Reload - FTE FTC MP Full Size

Hi All,

I've got a pretty new pretty stock Full Size M&P 9mm. Only modification is an Apex DCAEK.

My question is regarding FTC & FTE using my own reloads. It's gotta be me somehow and I'm just not seeing it.

Load data goes like this:

Federal once fired cases sized and trimed
125gr LRN #1105 (sort of conical bottom)
3.9gr / IMR SR7625
C.O.L. 1.125
CCI 500 Primers

Using Modern Reloading / Richard Lee Second Edition gets me:
3.6gr@933 to Max @4.1gr@1035 w/31200 psi toped by COL 1.125

So that's what the book says and I worked up slowly to the 3.9gr with a lot of FTE FTC.

Interestingly when I put these 9 rounds together I didn't rely on the Lee Turret plates for a true weight, I weighed each one on my digital scale and was vary careful with the COL.

So out to my range out back with the Chrony and here's what I got:

two chrony errors
1143
875.3 - Lo
1249
1349
1390 - Hi
1348
1255

Average - 1230

So, I'm sort of baffled and probably just not seeing the forest for the trees, but these are sort of all over the map and way off the book data. Sorta makes me question the reloading Gods a bit.

I'd appreciate any input or thoughts you all may have or perhaps someone has run into this and could share some info?

Thanks for reading,

behoof
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Old May 6th, 2014, 12:55 PM   #2
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Wondering if you have an extractor issue.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:00 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by novalty View Post
Wondering if you have an extractor issue.
I'd hope not it's only got maybe 100 rounds thru it. I just looked at it and it looks clean and moves normally but maybe I'll pull it for a closer inspection.

Thanks I'll post if I find it to be a problem
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:08 PM   #4
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The COAL looks a little long to me, but you aren't having a failure-to-feed issue. Even if it was a low charge it should at least cycle the slide to eject the spent brass. So the extractor would be where I would start. If you have some factory ammo that would be worth a try, and if you continued to have an issue I'd contact S&W. Their Customer Service is top-notch. Have contacted them on a couple firearms for minor issues, and they sent prepaid shipping label, and had the gun back to me within a couple weeks with issue resolved.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:41 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalty View Post
The COAL looks a little long to me, but you aren't having a failure-to-feed issue. Even if it was a low charge it should at least cycle the slide to eject the spent brass. So the extractor would be where I would start. If you have some factory ammo that would be worth a try, and if you continued to have an issue I'd contact S&W. Their Customer Service is top-notch. Have contacted them on a couple firearms for minor issues, and they sent prepaid shipping label, and had the gun back to me within a couple weeks with issue resolved.
HI Novalty,

Thanks for the reply...

I just pulled some Federal out of one of the ammo cans and mic'd it and found it to be at COL of 1.150"

When I did a chamber check on my M&P with an empty casing and 125gr LRN I came up with a COAL of 1.180". I don't know if this is a standard but I have to think so as this is a stock pistol except for the trigger and sear.

I just looked in one of my old Hornady Manuals and found a 124gr LRN with a B.C.: 0.131 and COL of 1.090" but no listing there for IMR SR7625 powder, just stuff like Herco and Unique etc.



Maybe I'm making a bit to much of this but I really like to play safely.... had a buddy put the wrong round in his Winslow 7mm out in Wyoming on a hunting trip we were on and fortunatly it blew out the bottom and not up or back. Not to mention all the nasty stuff when I was in the Corps.

Thanks again
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:45 PM   #6
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Can you post a pic of a loaded round?

What distance are you shoot from the chrony? What conditions?
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Old May 6th, 2014, 01:59 PM   #7
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Can you post a pic of a loaded round?

What distance are you shoot from the chrony? What conditions?
About 8 ft from the chrony with the Chrony in full shade.

I shot the last 9 rounds I made up but I've still got the empty with the now gouged LRN stuck in it for measuring the COL when in the chamber.

Or if it would be of interest when I get back later this evening from a meeting I must attend I could cook one up and post a picture of it but it's just a Federal case with a 125gr LRN sitting on top of it.

Let me know and thanks...
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Old May 6th, 2014, 02:59 PM   #8
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I'm not familiar with that powder, but often a substantial variance of velocity can be caused by an inadequate crimp not allowing it to build pressure properly before the bullet is pushed out of the case. Never trust the advertised capacity of those powder disks, always check the weight on a good scale.

One other comment, don't waste your time trimming pistol caliber cases. It is extremely important to pay close attention to case length in bottle neck rifle cases, while it is a complete waste of time to worry about or trim pistol calibers. I have reloaded several hundred thousand pistol rounds in the aprox 50 years I've been reloading, and I've never trimmed a pistol case. Surely its important to trim pistol cases for best accuracy....isn't it? I started shooting competitive pistol in the 60's, shooting for extreme accuracy out to 50 yards, over multiple disciplines I finally ended up competing in the Master Class, again out to 50 yards, to complete in that class I had to practice a lot, I would average shooting and reloading about 1,000 rounds per week in the competition season, just for practice. The Master Class is cut throat in how tough it is to win that class, and I did fairly well, and I never trimmed a pistol caliber case, not one.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 03:17 PM   #9
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What is a "FTC;" never heard that one before.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:49 PM   #10
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Failure to chamber... would be my guess

sent from what use to be a great country..
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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:50 PM   #11
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What is a "FTC;" never heard that one before.
HI,

Failure to Chamber

In this case the rounds would jumble at the extraction point sometimes leaving a spent cartridge stuck in the way of stripping off the next round.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:51 PM   #12
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Quote:
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What is a "FTC;" never heard that one before.
Hadn't seen that accronym before either, guessing Failure To Cycle.
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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:55 PM   #13
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HI,

Failure to Chamber

In this case the rounds would jumble at the extraction point sometimes leaving a spent cartridge stuck in the way of stripping off the next round.
What does the taper crimp measure at the case mouth?
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Old May 6th, 2014, 04:59 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by G56 View Post
I'm not familiar with that powder, but often a substantial variance of velocity can be caused by an inadequate crimp not allowing it to build pressure properly before the bullet is pushed out of the case. Never trust the advertised capacity of those powder disks, always check the weight on a good scale.

One other comment, don't waste your time trimming pistol caliber cases. It is extremely important to pay close attention to case length in bottle neck rifle cases, while it is a complete waste of time to worry about or trim pistol calibers. I have reloaded several hundred thousand pistol rounds in the aprox 50 years I've been reloading, and I've never trimmed a pistol case. Surely its important to trim pistol cases for best accuracy....isn't it? I started shooting competitive pistol in the 60's, shooting for extreme accuracy out to 50 yards, over multiple disciplines I finally ended up competing in the Master Class, again out to 50 yards, to complete in that class I had to practice a lot, I would average shooting and reloading about 1,000 rounds per week in the competition season, just for practice. The Master Class is cut throat in how tough it is to win that class, and I did fairly well, and I never trimmed a pistol caliber case, not one.
Hi G56,

Thanks for the info on case triming, I mostly just look at them to make sure they're not seperating or splitting etc.

Sounds like you've been having an interesting time over the years!! I've never been involved in competitive shooting. Well except for friendly shoot offs and such.

You mentioned crimp and a bit of a light bulb went off !! I'm thinking back the the crimping step and I seem to remember a couple of them that felt a bit soft but that was when I should have noted it. Good chance this may be a bit of an issue.

I'm still a bit concerned about the higher FPS as compared to the books stated velocity. I mean I realize that real world is never perfect but my numbers are quite a bit off.

Any thoughts on this? I know you said you're not familiar with this powder and nor am I.

Caught a deal at my local Pawn Shop and remembered the number from the book so I snatched it up. I know, I know, not always a good plan but in todays Powder World we have to get it when we can.

Anyway, thanks and hope to hear from you.
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Old July 16th, 2014, 10:59 AM   #15
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Ok. If ftc is failure to chamber, is fte failure to extract or eject?

Cycle of operations-
Firing, Unlocking, Extraction, Ejection, Cocking, Feeding, Chambering, Locking.

If the ftc is because of empty casing obstruction outside of the chamber yet still in the ejection port area, the stoppage is just failure to eject. If the stoppage is just the cartridge just fails to fully enter the chamber, then that is ftc.

Failures in extract and ejection can both be a faulty extractor. The extractor must maintain control of the casing throughout the recoil phase until striking the ejector. This is of course assuming a good ejector.
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