Red Dot and Cast Bullets - MP-Pistol Forum

Red Dot and Cast Bullets

This is a discussion on Red Dot and Cast Bullets within the MP Reloading forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; How much in 115,124 and 130gr cast bullets. Is this powder worth it? Seems like you have to compress the powder....


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Old April 20th, 2015, 04:49 PM   #1
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Red Dot and Cast Bullets

How much in 115,124 and 130gr cast bullets. Is this powder worth it?
Seems like you have to compress the powder.
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Old April 20th, 2015, 07:28 PM   #2
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Red Dot is a fairly fast burning powder, about as fast burning as Bullseye, burn rate charts disagree whether its slightly faster than Bullseye or not, a compressed charge of Red Dot would almost certainly blow your pistol up.

In any case you rarely see loading info for Red Dot, I don't know why, I have never used it personally.

Hodgdon's burn rate chart shows it faster than Bullseye.
https://www.hodgdon.com/PDF/Burn%20R...02014-2015.pdf

Reloaders Nest burn rate chart shows it slightly slower than Bullseye. I trust Hodgdon more personally.
Powder Burn Rate Comparison Chart @ www.reloadersnest.com
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Old April 20th, 2015, 11:06 PM   #3
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You should at least give us more of a hint as to the cartridge you are loading.
If 9x19 (9mm Luger/9mm Parabellum):
If you want a fast powder for 9x19, Red Dot is a good powder (or, at least as good as any other fast powder). It is a LOT better "behaved" than N310, Clays, or TiteGroup.
Have no idea why you think it would fill the case.
It is in the top three powders for .45 Auto, light .38 Spl target loads, and light .32 S&W Long target loads for accuracy out to 50 yards in my guns.
115gn: one source. 3.9gn start/4.9gn MAX
124gn: Start 3.0gn/ 3.6-3.9gn MAX
130gn: one source. 2.6gn start/3.5gn MAX
Call Alliant for their loading data.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 05:35 AM   #4
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I shoot Red Dot in 9mm and .40. 9mm 124gr, .40 180 gr both at 4.2gr it's a nice load for shooting steel.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 06:34 AM   #5
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Red Dot is generally considered a shotgun powder so there isn't a lot of pistol load data published. My current Alliant load book lists some Red Dot loads for a .38 Special but none for the 9 mm and their web site gives no Red Dot 9 mm loads with any bullet weight.

That said, it should work if you can find reliable data. One consideration is that Red Dot is a flake powder and doesn't meter well through volumetric powder measures in small charges.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 11:42 AM   #6
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I only have used Red Dot in 120 and 124g 9mm bullets. It is faster than Unique (my usual 9mm powder) so it doesn't generate full speed before reaching full pressure. Because of this, I haven't loaded the powder to the point of compressing it like I can with Unique. The most I've used was 4.0g under the TL356-124-2R seated to 1.170" (very long with a lot of lube grooves showing). This got me an average of 1068 fps in the M&P FS 4.25" bbl and 983 fps in the Shield. Quickload estimated the max pressure to be 35,000 psi and velocitied of 1102 and 1033. I would much rather use Unique for full speed loads, but Red Dot will work if I wish to load for lower velocities.

On Friday, I tried some 120g TC's seated to 1.06" with 3.0g Red Dot and they were very mild. The MV's were in the low 900's but the gun fully cycled and locked back on the last round.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 04:48 PM   #7
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OK, I finally talked to an alliant tech. They dropped red dot from 9mm Luger 2-3 years ago because of high pressure problems and asked that I use current not old (1992 -2010) guides for using RD. The tech felt RD is a diffident no go in the 9, larger cals like the 45ACP are ok.
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Old April 21st, 2015, 07:10 PM   #8
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Very interesting.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 05:59 AM   #9
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Looking at Hodgdon's powder burn rate chart Red Dot is a fair bit "faster" than even Bullseye or Tightgroup so I'm not surprised it's a bit too fast for reliable 9 mm use.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:55 AM   #10
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Been shooting Red Dot in 9mm and .40 for many, many years. I've never had an issue.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 06:47 PM   #11
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That's whats so puzzling. I used RD in12ga decades ago and their current guide still lists the same load data, but when a company drops data for a cartridge/powder after decades of use I see a BIG red flag. So I don't doubt you guys that say 4gr is OK but for me I'm backing off RD (except for 12ga) like it's a big timber rattler and going back to H-Universal
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 06:59 PM   #12
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Companies trying to cover themselves in this age of law suites for things such as spilling hot coffee on yourself the suing the store that sold it to you. Same reason they now call it a recipe instead of load data.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 07:19 PM   #13
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I don't think they would have taken it off their recommended list without good reason, they couldn't stay in business doing that.

While it might not instantly cause a KB, they had a reason to take it off the list, and if they were concerned enough to take it off the list, that's good enough for me.

In an ideal world we wouldn't see this kind of stuff, but we do, so be careful!


Last edited by G56; April 22nd, 2015 at 07:25 PM.
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Old April 22nd, 2015, 10:37 PM   #14
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>That's whats so puzzling. I used RD in12ga decades ago and their current guide still lists the same load data, but when a company drops data for a cartridge/powder after decades of use I see a BIG red flag. So I don't doubt you guys that say 4gr is OK but for me I'm backing off RD (except for 12ga) like it's a big timber rattler and going back to H-Universal

Alliant made a PUBLIC announcement several years ago that they were no longer going to test their shotgun powders in pistols or their pistol powders in shotguns. This is why you won't see any data from them--and, even then, I don't believe that they have managed to keep their threat 100%.
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Old April 23rd, 2015, 05:57 AM   #15
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Glocks kaboom all the time no matter what powder you use of if the ammo is factory or reloads.
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