Xtreme 9 mm 124 gr RNCB - Page 2 - MP-Pistol Forum

Xtreme 9 mm 124 gr RNCB

This is a discussion on Xtreme 9 mm 124 gr RNCB within the MP Reloading forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Even though I seat, and crimp separately, I won't use Lee, factory crimp dies anymore because if the brass is overworked, you'll get springback, but, ...


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Old January 26th, 2017, 11:52 AM   #16
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Even though I seat, and crimp separately, I won't use Lee, factory crimp dies anymore because if the brass is overworked, you'll get springback, but, with a soft bullet, the bullet will be squeezed to a slightly smaller diameter, which could cause setback of the bullet, raising chamber pressures.
I generally load 1.14" OAL, but, whenever trying a new bullet, I do the plunk test, to see just how long I can go in a particular barrel.
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Old January 28th, 2017, 05:46 AM   #17
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Plunk test?
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Old January 28th, 2017, 05:54 AM   #18
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Plunk test?
Drop the round in your barrel to see if it fits properly
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Old January 28th, 2017, 07:16 PM   #19
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Drop the round in your barrel to see if it fits properly
How do I tell if it fits properly?
Dropping in barrel?
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Old January 28th, 2017, 11:58 PM   #20
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How do I tell if it fits properly?
Dropping in barrel?
Look it up on youtube... its better to see how its done rather than trying to explain it in here.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 01:32 AM   #21
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The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 06:39 AM   #22
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The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:
Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.
Remove and inspect the round:
1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long
2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp
3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case
4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit
5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
Be careful using the term "bulge buster".... the 9mm is a tapered case. You would then want to use a 9mm undersized resize die to remove the bulge. LEE has them.

LEE 9mm Undersize Die
Undersize Sizing Die 9mm - Lee Precision

And you would want to see the leading edge of the case mouth scratch off a tiny bit of ink because (most) auto cases head space at the case mouth.

The smartest thing to do is buy a case gage... its easier to use rather than tear your gun apart. And the gage is a "go/no go".
When you drop your case in the case gage, it wants to sit flush, then tip the case gage upside down, case should fall out on its own.
The dillon case gage is the best one out there on the market... the other end of the gage will tell you if your crimp is correct or not.
I`ll also mention, a case gage will also tell you if you seated the bullet to high just by looking at it... it dosent want to stick out higher than the gage.

Dillon Case Gage`s.... best $15 bucks you`ll ever spend... its stainless, it will last way past your lifetime.
https://www.dillonprecision.com/dill...8_3_25548.html

Last edited by PaPow; January 29th, 2017 at 06:49 AM.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 08:22 AM   #23
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Re: the Dillon case gauge...

The only point I want to bring up is that it's slow. That's OK if you only have a little ammo to case gauge but not so good if you're case gauging thousands of rounds. Any competitor does the latter. For that you need to think mass quantities.

I use one that gauges 100 rounds at a time. But if that's all it did it would be a waste of time and money. But there is also a mating "flipper". Once all the rounds are case gauged the flipper is put over the case gauge; it's specially made to mate up correctly. The mated rig is flipped over and the rounds get dumped into the flip tray. Then Dillon 100 round ammo boxes are placed over that and flipped again. So by case gauging the ammo it's also been boxed for storage and later use. It takes much longer to write than it does to actually do. It's fast.

Note that case gauges are built with undersized chambers as compared to an actual chamber, so don't be surprised if a round that doesn't case gauge properly will still work fine in the gun. You'll soon learn what a bad round looks like in the gauge. All case gauged rounds will work in the gun, so only those are used when it counts, the ones that might work I only use for practice. If I get a malfunction due to a bad round that's OK because I get to practice malfunction drills. Much better to get malfunctions in practice and not at all after the buzzer sounds.

OK, price. The Dillon is far superior in that regard. I think my gauge cost me near $100, the flipper another $20, and of course the ammo boxes. But it's fast if you have a lot of ammo to case gauge. I decided that my time was worth paying for to get it back. You might not have that consideration. Most everything is a trade off. The slow part of my adopted system is the loading of the gauge itself.

I haven't had a malfunction after the buzzer since I began gauging all of my ammo.

The 100 round case gauge I use has shakebottle.com printed on it. I have no affiliation with them other than as a full retail paying customer.
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Old January 29th, 2017, 11:49 AM   #24
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Quote:
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Re: the Dillon case gauge...

The only point I want to bring up is that it's slow. That's OK if you only have a little ammo to case gauge but not so good if you're case gauging thousands of rounds. Any competitor does the latter. For that you need to think mass quantities.

I use one that gauges 100 rounds at a time. But if that's all it did it would be a waste of time and money. But there is also a mating "flipper". Once all the rounds are case gauged the flipper is put over the case gauge; it's specially made to mate up correctly. The mated rig is flipped over and the rounds get dumped into the flip tray. Then Dillon 100 round ammo boxes are placed over that and flipped again. So by case gauging the ammo it's also been boxed for storage and later use. It takes much longer to write than it does to actually do. It's fast.

Note that case gauges are built with undersized chambers as compared to an actual chamber, so don't be surprised if a round that doesn't case gauge properly will still work fine in the gun. You'll soon learn what a bad round looks like in the gauge. All case gauged rounds will work in the gun, so only those are used when it counts, the ones that might work I only use for practice. If I get a malfunction due to a bad round that's OK because I get to practice malfunction drills. Much better to get malfunctions in practice and not at all after the buzzer sounds.

OK, price. The Dillon is far superior in that regard. I think my gauge cost me near $100, the flipper another $20, and of course the ammo boxes. But it's fast if you have a lot of ammo to case gauge. I decided that my time was worth paying for to get it back. You might not have that consideration. Most everything is a trade off. The slow part of my adopted system is the loading of the gauge itself.

I haven't had a malfunction after the buzzer since I began gauging all of my ammo.

The 100 round case gauge I use has shakebottle.com printed on it. I have no affiliation with them other than as a full retail paying customer.

Hey you ole`coot, i dont believe the OP is at "your level of reloading" yet, thats why i threw the dillon idea in there for him.
Its VERY affordable, it works, and is a great way to start out doing it the safer proper way. Gotta crawl before you can walk.


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Old January 30th, 2017, 05:00 AM   #25
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I have no idea how a undersized sizing die can go down further on a case than a standard sizing die. The issue is that a sizing die, of any type, can simply push the bulge down and form a ridge that prevents chambering. Thus, Bulge Busting is the best technique.
However, for Bulge Busting 9x19 and 9x21 cases, I use the Lee 9mm MAK FCD. Works great.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 06:33 AM   #26
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Quote:
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I have no idea how a undersized sizing die can go down further on a case than a standard sizing die. The issue is that a sizing die, of any type, can simply push the bulge down and form a ridge that prevents chambering. Thus, Bulge Busting is the best technique.
However, for Bulge Busting 9x19 and 9x21 cases, I use the Lee 9mm MAK FCD. Works great.
Nobody makes a "bulge buster die" for 9mm, that i`m aware of. Thats why i recommended the LEE 9mm undersize die. (if someone DID make one, i`d have it in a heartbeat, because they do work GREAT on straight wall cases) The LEE undersize die DOES eliminate the 9mm bulge. I know it does because i mic the cases that were previously bulged, and they are resized perfectly all the way down to the case rim. I`ve used the LEE FCD dies you described, sorry but i`m not a fan of them, i`ll just leave it at that.
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Old January 30th, 2017, 12:42 PM   #27
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Hey you ole`coot, i dont believe the OP is at "your level of reloading" yet, thats why i threw the dillon idea in there for him.
Its VERY affordable, it works, and is a great way to start out doing it the safer proper way. Gotta crawl before you can walk.


:-)

Hey, just who are you calling an old coot!? Me? Yeah, OK. I absolutely am my friend. But that just means I've done it the hard way for far too long and try to simplify things as much as possible anymore.

Yeah, I hear you. I did consider the Dillon gauge but, well... I don't want to rewrite my post. If I had gone with the Dillon I would have just had to do it again. But as you correctly mentioned it's not expensive.

Lots of noobs just use the barrel from out of their gun as a chamber gauge (was this already discussed?) . It's the same exact size as the barrel when it's put back into the gun. But talk about slow! It's like watching grass grow. But it costs nothing and they have it on hand. It's also better than not gauging the ammo at all.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 03:52 AM   #28
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>Nobody makes a "bulge buster die" for 9mm

And yet you quote my post where I mention that I use the Lee 9mm MAK FCD all the time for Bulge Busting.
I will repeat that:
You use a Lee FCD with the Lee Bulge Buster kit. I use the Lee 9mm MAK FCD for Bulge Busting 9x19 and 9x21 cases all the time.
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Old January 31st, 2017, 07:41 AM   #29
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:-)

Hey, just who are you calling an old coot!? Me? Yeah, OK. I absolutely am my friend. But that just means I've done it the hard way for far too long and try to simplify things as much as possible anymore.

Yeah, I hear you. I did consider the Dillon gauge but, well... I don't want to rewrite my post. If I had gone with the Dillon I would have just had to do it again. But as you correctly mentioned it's not expensive.

Lots of noobs just use the barrel from out of their gun as a chamber gauge (was this already discussed?) . It's the same exact size as the barrel when it's put back into the gun. But talk about slow! It's like watching grass grow. But it costs nothing and they have it on hand. It's also better than not gauging the ammo at all.

hehehehehe.... me an ole coot too....lol... load on buddie
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Old February 17th, 2017, 02:13 PM   #30
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1) the seating stem only contacts the meplat and you did not properly expand the case (you know, expand the case ID, not case mouth flare). After expansion, the case ID should be 0.001-0.002" under the bullet diameter.
When you pull a bullet, what is the bullet diameter?
2) did you work up to 6.0gn of Power Pistol or are you just assuming that load is fine in your gun? It may be accurate in my gun, but it is near max with the powder lot number I have and needs to be worked up to in any other gun
3) Lee Factory Crimp Die is OK for crimping, but the carbide ring is best removed.
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