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Stubborn Frame Roll Pin

24K views 32 replies 14 participants last post by  dblb 
#1 ·
I am currently trying to remove the rear coiled roll pin out of my Shield frame so I can install an Apex hard sear. However it is being a stubborn SOB to remove and won't budge.

I have tried soaking the pin in oil and am using the correct size 1/8" roll pin punch. I am driving the pin from right to left, pounding on the pin with the ejection side facing up. It just seems like I am using excessive force and the pin is not budging.

Anybody encountered stubborn frame roll pins before on a brand new gun? The Apex install video says to remove the pins from right to left....would it be ok to try to remove it from the other side since this side isn't working?

Also does anybody know if the standard M&P 9 roll pins are the same size as the ones on the Shield? I want to order a couple extra ones from Brownells here: Locking Block Coil Pin : LOCKING BLOCK COIL PIN | Brownells

Thanks for the help!
 
#2 ·
I thought that pin could go either way (maybe I'm wrong) Look at the other side and see if it is "digging in" from being too sharp, If so it needs to go out the other way. is your punch nice and square on the end? any point will try to expand the pin and lock it in more. Good luck...
 
#4 ·
Thanks for the replies. I am only trying to remove them from right to left since that is what they specifically say in the Apex installation video on Youtube (I don't know what the difference is however): Apex Duty/Carry Shield Kit Install - YouTube

It does look like the roll pin is digging into the plastic on the other side so maybe I need to try removing from left to right instead. I'm using a brand new Grace steel 1/8" roll pin punch.
 
#5 ·
The Apex video does say right to left, but I think the roll pin will come out either way. It will on my FS .40 Pro. The Shield might be different though.
I've only taken it out of a Shield once and did go right to left.

I did have to be careful to make sure I was flush with the punch against the end of the roll pen though, so I didn't expand the end. Hope this helps! :D
 
#13 · (Edited)
having not done a sheild, if they are the same as a standard MP, you are using the wrong size...
#4 Roll/Role pin punch, happens to be 1/8" in diameter. That Is the correct punch, although you're welcome to use whatever you want.

Keep in mind, the larger the hammer, the more you damage the pins. It doesn't really make a big difference which direction you go as long as you're consistent.

8" to 12" scrap of 4x4 lumber with a 1/4" to 1/2" hole drilled through it makes a great bench block.
 
#7 ·
Not knowing your experience level I must ask:

You are using a receiver block aren't you? That is a block of wood, plastic or whatever with a drilling the pin can go into.
 
#9 ·
I am using a couple of rolls of masking tape as a receiver block.

I contacted Apex about this and they said it would be ok to try to remove the pin from the other side (left to right). 1/8" is the size of the punch Apex uses in the video and it seems like it just about fits perfect. It clears the hole in the polymer frame and makes full contact with the pin. I tried the next size smaller punch but it doesn't make as much contact with the face of the pin.

Apex also confirmed that the coiled roll pins for the Shield are the same ones as on the full size M&P 9. I ordered a few more from Speed Shooters Specialties since the one i'm trying to remove is getting all shiny and silver from the steel punch attacking it.

I guess I need to grab a bigger hammer and try again from the other side.

Thanks again for your help and replies.
 
#12 · (Edited)
I am using a couple of rolls of masking tape as a receiver block..........I guess I need to grab a bigger hammer and try again from the other side.
You can remove the pin from either direction.
You don't need a bigger hammer !
Your problem is using the rolls of masking tape !!! as a wannabe bench block......much of your punch energy is being transferred and absorbed by the soft rolls of tape. The common polymer bench blocks suffer in usefulness for the same reason, as well as being too small an awkward shaped working surface.

Here are some examples of simple bench blocks that are effective, listed in order of usefulness. Some gun pins are notoriously difficult to remove them for the first time without marring them, therefore employing a combination of these simple blocks in sequence protects the gun art.


 
#11 ·
I believe S&W specified left-to-right, though for the frame roll pins it probably won't make a difference. (It does make a difference on the extractor pin.) If you'd looked carefully before you started hitting it, you can usually tell which side it was installed from.

It's better if you have an actual roll-pin punch, with the center nub on the end. You're less likely to slip or damage the pin. They can be ordered individually from places like McMaster Carr.
 
#15 ·
I like the lead block idea of mp9werks and just may get one. I have however been using blocks made from 1x4 Oak leftover from cabinet projects. Oak is a bit harder than other common woods and doesn't give like the tape. It is readily available at Lowes, Home Depot etc.

The oil you applied is not necessary for removal of the pin.

Welcome to the world of guns.
 
#19 ·
I went at it again a couple of times today. This time I used a block of wood with a hole drilled into it.

I got the pin to start moving but it is putting up a fight every step of the way. So far I got it a whole 1/16" of an inch of of the hole on the right side. I tried it with the block on my workbench and then on the concrete floor but with little difference. This thing is just being a stubborn SOB. :rant:

I'm seriously about to break out the 3 lb sledge on this. I am already using a big steel hammer but it feels like I need some focused pure mass to get it moving some more.
 
#21 ·
I have to believe you are simply not hitting it hard enough. Use a medium weight hammer and hit it solidly. It will probably pop right out.

There is a tendency to treat these things with kid gloves till one becomes comfortable performing these tasks. Your stroke must have some follow through although you should not need to as you indicated use a sledge hammer.

I have seen some use tiny hammers and hundreds of pecks to move pins but I have found a moderate size ball peen ( 10 to 12 oz.) works best for me. The stroke must be properly aligned with the axis of the pin. Side thrust doesn't cut it.

The base your receiver block is mounted on must be solid also or it will quiver and soak up the blow. Bottom line is you must apply enough force in the correct direction for it to move.

If the pin is not moving you are simply not applying enough force.

Good luck.
 
#24 ·
Do you have a Drill Press? or a friend with an Arbor press? I have used my small Ryobi bench top drill press to push out stubborn sights, You can chuck up your punch and press it out....
 
#25 ·
Well I finally got the roll pin out after pounding on it some more. It was slow going, but it eventually gave way and came out.

I just received my replacement coil pins from Speed Shooters Specialties and to my dismay they are LONGER than the sear housing coil pin on the Shield. About 1/8" longer overall. Apex told me all the coil pins on the M&P's should be the same...wrong. I hate when this happens :rant:

Now I have to figure out if I can get a replacement pin from Smith & Wesson somehow.
 
#26 ·
Nacs;
1)Was the old pin "damaged" in any way? Might have been the cause of your removal problems.
2)Nice to know the pins may be different for the Shield.
However,are they so long that they would stick out of the frame?
 
#27 ·
Sorry for the late reply.

I didn't find any damage to the pin upon removal, but it was a bear to remove nonetheless. The ends of the pin did get dinged up from the end of the roll pin punch and my repeated removal attempts though.

Yes, the standard M&P pins would protrude beyond the frame in the Shield. They appear to be the same diameter though. I did contact S&W and they kindly sent out a replacement coil pin for my Shield. I returned the M&P pins to Speed Shooter Specialties.

The S&W rep confirmed that both the locking block and sear housing block coil pins in the Shield are the same part. So word to the wise: Shield frame coil pins are Shield specific only ;)



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#30 ·
Roll pins, much like cotter pins, are best used only once.

it looks like you may have used the wrong size punch.
Both take a #4 roll/role pin punch, they are not available in various nub sizes.
 
#29 ·
If the one on the right in the "end" shot is the old one;it looks like you may have used the wrong size punch.
I think that a punch with a "fatter" nub at the end might have prevented the damage around the hole in the pin.
I have been wrong many times,however!
 
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