Full Size M&P Pro/PC Sear in a Shield 9mm/40 cal. - MP-Pistol Forum

Full Size M&P Pro/PC Sear in a Shield 9mm/40 cal.

This is a discussion on Full Size M&P Pro/PC Sear in a Shield 9mm/40 cal. within the MP SHIELD Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Has anyone here tried a full size Pro/Performance Center sear in their Shield 9 mm/40 cal? If so, how well did it work? I would ...


Go Back   MP-Pistol Forum > Smith & Wesson MP Forum > MP SHIELD Pistols

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old March 5th, 2017, 05:24 AM   #1
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
Full Size M&P Pro/PC Sear in a Shield 9mm/40 cal.

Has anyone here tried a full size Pro/Performance Center sear in their Shield 9 mm/40 cal? If so, how well did it work? I would really like to find out if the PC sears used in the PC Shields are the same as the PC sears used in the full size Pro/Performance Center M&Ps.
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 06:11 AM   #2
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
They aren`t that expensive, why wouldnt you just buy one and be done with it.
PaPow is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 06:34 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Rick M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Weeki Wachee, FL
Posts: 1,757
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee45 View Post
Has anyone here tried a full size Pro/Performance Center sear in their Shield 9 mm/40 cal? If so, how well did it work? I would really like to find out if the PC sears used in the PC Shields are the same as the PC sears used in the full size Pro/Performance Center M&Ps.

I don't know for sure about the sears, but I don't believe they're interchangeable.

I do know that the Apex striker blocks for the 9/40's are the same for the Shields as the full sized 9/40's.

Pa:

Love the new sig line!
Rick M is offline  
 
Old March 5th, 2017, 04:05 PM   #4
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee45 View Post
Quote PowWow "They aren`t that expensive, why wouldnt you just buy one and be done with it?"

Because it seems easier to ask a question from possible knowledgeable forum members than it is to locate something that might be difficult to find, order it, then try to sell in a market with limited demand if if I find that it doesn't work.
They`re all over the place, not at all hard to find. I dont see how it wouldnt work, as long as you know what your doing installing it.

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDi...Details/191852

APEX TACTICAL SPECIALTIES INC. S&W M&P FULLY MACHINED SEAR | Brownells
PaPow is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 04:27 PM   #5
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
They`re all over the place, not at all hard to find. I dont see how it wouldnt work, as long as you know what your doing installing it.

https://store.apextactical.com/WebDi...Details/191852

APEX TACTICAL SPECIALTIES INC. S&W M&P FULLY MACHINED SEAR | Brownells
I know of one place that sometimes has a limited number of Pro/PC sears. I like to play with things and do my own thing so I'm going to play with the Smith PC sear rather than APEX (I have nothing agaist APEX at all). I have a PC sear in my full size 45 which, along with some polishing, changed it from a stiff 9+ lb staple gun like trigger to a trigger pull of 4 1/2 to 5 lbs lbs which is as low as I want to go with it. It could still use some work on the striker block which would make for smoother pre-travel/uptake. The trigger has a crisp break with no after travel and a very short reset. The reset is short with typical for (M&Ps) lightly audible as well as felt reset. That and the long pre-travel/uptake are OK with me for this defensive weapon.


In any event, I found that I had asked this question more than a year ago and at least one member has put a full size Pro/Performance Center Sear in his Shield. I also located a rather long video showing how a gunsmith had done the same thing.

Incidently, elsewhere, on another thread, someone erroneously mentioned that all Performance Center M&P pistols come from the factory with APEX sears. If APEX happens to make the PC sears (which I doubt), the PC sear profile is quite different from the sears that Apex sells. They are different on the face of the sear where where the striker engages the sear and the sears are also different on the top. That said, the two sears have a similar but not identical profile on their camming surfaces where the trigger bar engages them.

Last edited by Yankee45; March 5th, 2017 at 05:09 PM.
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 05:12 PM   #6
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee45 View Post
I know of one place that sometimes has a limited number of Pro/PC sears. I like to play with things and do my own thing so I'm going to play with the Smith PC sear rather than APEX (I have nothing agaist APEX at all). I have a PC sear in my full size 45 which, along with some polishing, changed it from a stiff 9+ lb staple gun like trigger to a trigger pull of 4 1/2 to 5 lbs lbs which is as low as I want to go with it. It could still use some work on the striker block which would make for smoother pre-travel/uptake. The trigger has a crisp break with no after travel and a very short reset. The reset is short with typical for (M&Ps) lightly audible as well as felt reset. That and the long pre-travel/uptake are OK with me for this defensive weapon.


In any event, I found that I had asked this question more than a year ago and at least one member has put a full size Pro/Performance Center Sear in his Shield. I also located a rather long video showing how a gunsmith had done the same thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dgIrNhFXYc

Incidently, elsewhere, on another thread, someone erroneously mentioned that all Performance Center M&P pistols come from the factory with APEX sears. If APEX happens to make the PC sears (which I doubt), the PC sear profile is quite different from the sears that Apex sells. They are different on the face of the sear where where the striker engages the sear and the sears are also different on the top. That said, the two sears have a similar but not identical profile on their camming surfaces where the trigger bar engages them.
You sound very seasoned in knowing what you want and how to do it. And your right, apex does NOT make the sears for S&W, they copied apex just enough not to get sued.
And they dont have them made in this country either.
PaPow is offline  
Old March 5th, 2017, 05:20 PM   #7
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
The video: I wouldnt want that basement bandit workin on any of my guns. Just sayin
PaPow is offline  
Old March 6th, 2017, 04:40 PM   #8
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
You sound very seasoned in knowing what you want and how to do it. And your right, apex does NOT make the sears for S&W, they copied apex just enough not to get sued.
And they dont have them made in this country either.
I don't pretend to be a gunsmith but I can get it all done OK. Just knowing what one wants to do and why, and how to do it usually works pretty well.I wonder where the standard and PC sears are made? The PC sears appear to to be machined out of hardened steel.

Last edited by Yankee45; March 7th, 2017 at 05:52 PM.
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 6th, 2017, 04:43 PM   #9
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
The video: I wouldnt want that basement bandit workin on any of my guns. Just sayin
He seems rather slow for a pro but he has a lot of good hard to find pictures of different sears elsewhere. Yes, I can do this myself. Thanks for your comments!
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 6th, 2017, 08:40 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee45 View Post
He seems rather slow for a pro but he has a lot of good hard to find pictures of different sears elsewhere. Yes, I can do this myself. Thanks for your comments!
Your very welcome Yankee.
Yes, he`s slow, AND sloppy, like he`s flying blind or something.
You can tell he isnt very good at it... like its his first time working on guns.
PaPow is offline  
Old March 7th, 2017, 05:58 PM   #11
Senior Member
 
Bill in Tx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Texas
Posts: 4,374
Yep! I did! Put the Pro Series Sear in my .40 caliber Shield when I swapped out the trigger in my FS Pro Series .40. Lowered the trigger pull weight to around 4 lbs. Hope this helps!
Bill in Tx is offline  
Old March 8th, 2017, 06:07 PM   #12
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill in Tx View Post
Yep! I did! Put the Pro Series Sear in my .40 caliber Shield when I swapped out the trigger in my FS Pro Series .40. Lowered the trigger pull weight to around 4 lbs. Hope this helps!
Bill, I've been told that some Pros came with PC sears and some didn't. Does the Pro sear that you used have the same profile as the PC sear with the stepdown profile on the top surface. If yours is a PC sear may I ask when your Pro was made? Here's a look at the PC sear with the stepdown profile on the top surface shown 3rd down in the picture. https://www.google.com/search?q=pict...fv9rKeNJa0M%3A

Last edited by Yankee45; March 9th, 2017 at 05:55 PM.
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 8th, 2017, 09:10 PM   #13
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938


This is a copy/paste from another forum... hope this can help

The top two are S&W factory parts... One from 2007 and the other from mid 2012. The one with the "2" is actually the older one. There was rumor of a sear revision in early 2012, but despite the different numbers on the sears, me and my caliper were unable to detect a notable difference (there were a couple thousandths here and there, but I suspect that is within factory tolerances). Both of the factory sears are obviously MIM parts (nothing wrong with that for this application). Notice the sharp angle on the backs of the sears. The angle is such that to pull the trigger, the sear must slightly retract the striker. This is responsible for most of the M&Ps trigger weight and a good deal of the grittiness. It is also why S&W calls the guns DAO.

The next sear down is the S&W performance center sear. This appears to be a machined (not MIM) part. Notice the slightly lesser angle on the back of the sear for a lower pull weight. The lug that contacts the trigger bar is also shorter and angled. This results in less overtravel (but more pretravel) and a shorter reset.

Next is the Apex hard sear. It is machined and hardened. Notice the angled lug similar to the PC sear, but more rounded. Also notice almost no angle on the back of the sear. This takes a good amount off the trigger weight and results in a much smoother pull. The drop in pull is enough that some Apex kits include increased rate trigger and sear springs. While this brings the pull weight back up, the result is much smoother. What is harder to see is that there is at least 5-10 thousandths less striker engagement... probably more, but I didn't feel like going through the process of measuring.

The bottom sear is the Apex forward set sear. Though it looks similar to the others, the geometry is altered so much that a direct comparison is not really possible. This sear shouldn't be used without replacing the trigger with the Apex purpose designed part... I suspect that if you tried, you would have absurd amounts of overtravel and the reset would be a country mile. Mine also required a modification to the trigger bar. Notice that the sear itself is significantly longer, and the lug is set forward. The angle on the back is all but gone. If you do not put in the increased rate springs that come with it, this results in a 2.5# trigger pull (at least it did for me). It is said that the FSS kit is meant to mimic a 1911 trigger. It is short, crisp and overall pretty awesome for a striker fired pistol, but a 1911 it is not.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg M&P Sear Comparison.jpg (48.7 KB, 52 views)
PaPow is offline  
Old March 9th, 2017, 05:50 AM   #14
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Southeast USA
Posts: 56
[QUOTE=PaPow;504906]

This is a copy/paste from another forum... hope this can help

Thanks, PaPow. I have seen this photo before and am familiar with what each sear is and (1) how the reverse angle or (lack of) on the face, (2) how the the angle underneath on the camming surface at the trigger bar loop contact point and (3) how far forward or rearward the camming surface is on each sear affects the characteristics of the trigger pull. This isn't my question.

I have a PC sear with standard trigger return spring in my full size 45, am happy with it and don't want to reduce the trigger pull further. As I am satisfied with that I want to try the PC sear in my Shield, likely with an Apex Ultimate Striker Block or modified standard S&W striker block added later to smooth out trigger pre-travel. If I used the similar Apex Duty/Carry sear it would reduce the trigger pull even lower due to the lack of no reverse angle on the sear face which would require using their heavier than S&W's trigger return spring in order to bring the trigger pull weight back up to a safe level for a defensive pistol. As this is the case, I want to try the PC sear first. Apparently some M&P Pro pistols came with the PC sear and some didn't. I'd like to know when the change was made or does anyone have a PC sear that they would like to sell to me? I don't want a Pro sear that isn't a PC sear and am trying to figure out how to find a PC sear.

Last edited by Yankee45; March 9th, 2017 at 05:53 AM.
Yankee45 is offline  
Old March 9th, 2017, 07:01 AM   #15
Senior Member
 
PaPow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: NY
Posts: 938
[quote=Yankee45;504970]
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post


This is a copy/paste from another forum... hope this can help

Thanks, PaPow. I have seen this photo before and am familiar with what each sear is and (1) how the reverse angle or (lack of) on the face, (2) how the the angle underneath on the camming surface at the trigger bar loop contact point and (3) how far forward or rearward the camming surface is on each sear affects the characteristics of the trigger pull. This isn't my question.

I have a PC sear with standard trigger return spring in my full size 45, am happy with it and don't want to reduce the trigger pull further. As I am satisfied with that I want to try the PC sear in my Shield, likely with an Apex Ultimate Striker Block or modified standard S&W striker block added later to smooth out trigger pre-travel. If I used the similar Apex Duty/Carry sear it would reduce the trigger pull even lower due to the lack of no reverse angle on the sear face which would require using their heavier than S&W's trigger return spring in order to bring the trigger pull weight back up to a safe level for a defensive pistol. As this is the case, I want to try the PC sear first. Apparently some M&P Pro pistols came with the PC sear and some didn't. I'd like to know when the change was made or does anyone have a PC sear that they would like to sell to me? I don't want a Pro sear that isn't a PC sear and am trying to figure out how to find a PC sear.
Hi Yankee,
have you tried calling S&W yet... if you call them, make sure they forward your call to the PC shop. The people answering the phones when you call customer service aren`t to bright... as a matter of fact, they are clueless. Ask them to put you thru to the PC shop. I called the PC shop quite awhile back, they sent me a PC sear for my standard 9mm shield with no problem. I installed it in my standard shield, oh man what a difference...like night & day difference. Of course this all happened long before the PC 9mm Shield ever came out. I have also bought the PC 9mm ported shield when it came out... very nice gun. Definitely big difference between the standard shield sear and the PC shield sear.

Actually, there was no change... I`m sure you already know this, the PRO sear is NOT the same as what they put in the PC guns. Here is what happened... some PC sears HAVE slipped into the PRO series guns on occasion, (thats why you dont see it that often, and leads people to believe there was a change) but only because they may have run out of the standard sears at the time of production... or the newbie they hired on the production line didnt know the difference, ran out of standard sears, grabbed the next handful, being PC sears, goes on an on, who knows what goes on behind the lines...lol. Not like we haven`t heard of or seen that before... happens more than one thinks, whether its by mistake, or on purpose, it happens. This is why some people will fight over telling you that ALL PRO`s have the PC sear, when its actually not true at all. What IS true, some do, most dont. Kinda like the flavor of today, is....etc etc etc.

One of the biggest problems i`ve seen with the M&P, is the FLAT TOPPED stryker block plunger... and the rough plunger hole in the slide (gritty bumpity bump bump, are you kidding me S&W...???? REALLY...?!?!?!)
Take the plunger out, spin it in a hand held drill, file off the edge until you have a dome. Then stone out the file marks, then polish it while spinning it in the drill with some flitz polish, or some other brand of polish compound. DO NOT remove any material from the top of the plunger, the height is VERY important to the function of the firing system...!!! All you want to do is round its profile a little, makes a smoother transition when following the trigger bar. Thats the secret to a SMOOTH trigger in a M&P pistol. Make sure the plunger hole inside the slide is cleaned up real good, slight polish here helps ALOT...! Be careful NOT to remove any material here, the plunger needs a good smooth fit without wobble side to side while moving up & down in the hole.

You can also adjust the trigger loop to take out some pre-travel.... use caution here though, too much loop into the sear is not good...UNLESS, you have an adjustable trigger over travel stop. To much loop will cause the sear to go to high...NOT GOOD...!

While the trigger bar is out of the gun, polish the loop and the triggerbar camel hump that contacts the plunger as well. A light polish to the trigger bar camel hump is very important, there again, dont remove material, just a slight polish.

As for the sear finish, i dont recommend doing anything with it, it isnt really necessary, UNLESS, it visually looks rough... slight polish is ok. Here again, do NOT mill or file off any material.

Sorry for the long story, just wanted to share what i`ve learned along the way with M&P pistols.
If it helps you in any way, GREAT. if not, its all good brother.

As for the PC sear, go back to the first paragraph.... CALL S&W to get one.

PaPowwwwwwwwwwww

Last edited by PaPow; March 9th, 2017 at 07:05 AM.
PaPow is offline  
Reply

  MP-Pistol Forum > Smith & Wesson MP Forum > MP SHIELD Pistols

Thread Tools
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
M&P 9 Full size "Gritty Trigger" Fixie2work1 MP Pistol Tech Help 27 March 20th, 2017 08:14 AM
SOLD M&P .45 Full Size + Apex FSS--SOLD catabol3 Classifieds 5 March 12th, 2017 07:33 AM
M&P 45 Full Size OEM SEAR Bengal07 Want To Buy 1 January 13th, 2017 09:28 AM
For Sale: Customized M&P, Full Size 45acp Street Survival Classifieds 0 November 23rd, 2016 03:26 AM
FS: Factory M&P trigger sets Shield and Full Size MWalden Classifieds 4 November 19th, 2016 02:54 PM



Powered by vBulletin 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.1
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Copyright © 2006-2012 MP-Pistol. All rights reserved.
MP-Pistol is a M&P pistol enthusiast forum, but it is in no way affiliated with, nor does it represent Smith & Wesson Holding Corp. of Springfield, MA.