Think I'm Done Adding Stuff To My Shield - MP-Pistol Forum

Think I'm Done Adding Stuff To My Shield

This is a discussion on Think I'm Done Adding Stuff To My Shield within the MP SHIELD Pistols forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; So far I've polished the barrel assembly, polished both feed ramps, installed the Apex Thin Blue Line Trigger and Duty Trigger Kit, and last, but ...


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Old April 17th, 2017, 11:20 PM   #1
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Think I'm Done Adding Stuff To My Shield

So far I've polished the barrel assembly, polished both feed ramps, installed the Apex Thin Blue Line Trigger and Duty Trigger Kit, and last, but not least, I installed a set of Truglo TFX Tritium/Fiber Optic Sights.

Very happy with the gun and the accessories, only put a couple hundred rounds through it, but with no problems with practice or various duty ammo, which I narrowed down to Speer Gold Dot .45 230 gr. JHP Short Barrel Ammo.
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Last edited by Anotherbob; April 18th, 2017 at 06:17 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 01:59 PM   #2
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Nice looking Shield and good ammo choice!
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:11 PM   #3
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This information is from an article entitled "1911 Reliable Compact Variables" by Bill Wilson. Of course the compact 1911 is mechanically different in some ways than the .45 Shield, however some aspects are quite similar short barrel, ammunition and magazine spring mechanics.

Some may find the following information from Bill Wilson insightful regarding logic of ammunition selection; my comments in red.

I often hear comments like “I only trust a full size 1911 because they are more reliable”. Well folks I’m here to tell you this statement isn’t necessarily true. While it is true some ultra compact 1911s with barrel lengths under 3.5” often have reliability issues, there are other important factors involved such as spring weights, firing pin stop dimensions, ammunition selection and whether or not the pistol will push feed.

The basic functional difference between a full size (as John Browning designed it) 1911 pistol and a compact version with a 4.25” or shorter barrel is slide mass and speed. Basically anytime you reduce mass and propel it with the same energy you will get faster cycle speed. Why does this matter? The pistol needs a certain amount of time to eject a fired case, allow the magazine to lift, position the next round for proper feeding and chamber the round. When slide mass is reduced and therefore slide cycle speed increased there may not be time for this to all happen properly.

So we must slow the slide cycle speed down and this is accomplished by a combination of the following:
Heavy hammer spring
Square bottom firing pin stop
Ammunition that generates less recoil impulse
Proper recoil spring weight for the ammunition used.
Of course the Shield owners have no options to adjust any of these mechanical variables, EXCEPT ammunition selection.

It’s much easier to slow the slide down by making it harder for it to cock the hammer than it is to just add poundage to the recoil spring. What we’re doing here is increasing the force needed to cock the hammer with a heavier spring and reducing the slides ability to cock the hammer by lowering the leverage point on the hammer, thus slowing slide cycle speed.

All the mechanical changes are important, but the biggest factor is ammunition selection because it affects both slide cycle speed and the magazine’s ability to lift the cartridge into position for proper feeding. Ammunition loaded with 230gr bullets generate more recoil impulse (especially +P loads) than 185gr loads and 7 rounds of 185gr ammunition weighs 315gr less than 7 rounds of 230gr ammunition making the column of ammunition easier for the magazine spring to lift. I hope you see where I’m going here? With modern hollow point bullets we have LOTS of bullet choices of 200gr or less that have proven to be VERY effective in regards to terminal performance.

Here are my personal ammunition choices for compact 1911s:
Range/Match Use
200gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter (H&G #68 mold) loaded to 850fps 200gr Hornady HAP loaded to 850fps

Self Defense
160gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 1050fps 185gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 950fps 185gr Winchester Silvertip
185gr Remington Golden Sabre
200gr Hornady XTP

The ammunition you DO NOT want to shoot in compact 1911s is 230gr +P loads!

At Wilson Combat we have also pioneered the use of modern flatwire recoil springs in Compact 1911 pistols. These springs will enhance your overall reliability since they hold their overall length and tension many times longer than standard round wire springs since the coils never go into bind.

After extensive testing we now put them in all our compact pistols.

This brings us to push feed. 1911 pistols are designed for controlled round feeding which means the cartridge is supposed to slide under the extractor hook as it feeds into the chamber.

However all 1911s don’t always do this, especially when slide speed is increased. This is really no big deal as long as the pistol is set-up to push feed. This is simply the shaping of the front of the extractor hook so it can snap over the case rim without undue resistance. This is easy to check by putting a empty case in the chamber, slowly lower the slide until the extractor contacts the case rim, then snapping the slide shut. You should be able to do this fairly easy with your thumb. If the slide won’t close or it takes both thumbs to close the pistol, it probably won’t push feed properly and the extractor needs adjusted.

I began shooting 4” compact 1911s almost exclusively in the late 90s primarily due to my failing eyesight, it just became easier for me to get a good focus on the sights with them closer together. 100!s of thousands of rounds later and several major IDPA match wins I can assure you a properly set-up and fed compact 1911 is every bit as reliable as any full size. As a final testament to my faith in a 4” compact, I carry one on my hip EVERY day, usually loaded with 160gr or 185gr Barnes TAC XP bullets.

Just sayin'.


Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.

Last edited by mp9werks; April 18th, 2017 at 03:25 PM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:30 PM   #4
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Nice!
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Old April 18th, 2017, 03:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anotherbob View Post
So far I've polished the barrel assembly, polished both feed ramps, installed the Apex Thin Blue Line Trigger and Duty Trigger Kit, and last, but not least, I installed a set of Truglo TFX Tritium/Fiber Optic Sights.

Very happy with the gun and the accessories, only put a couple hundred rounds through it, but with no problems with practice or various duty ammo, which I narrowed down to Speer Gold Dot .45 230 gr. JHP Short Barrel Ammo.
Nice bob, very nice
How do you like the APEX trigger over the OEM M&P trigger, what do you most notice different.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 05:57 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mp9werks View Post
This information is from an article entitled "1911 Reliable Compact Variables" by Bill Wilson. Of course the compact 1911 is mechanically different in some ways than the .45 Shield, however some aspects are quite similar short barrel, ammunition and magazine spring mechanics.

Some may find the following information from Bill Wilson insightful regarding logic of ammunition selection; my comments in red.

I often hear comments like “I only trust a full size 1911 because they are more reliable”. Well folks I’m here to tell you this statement isn’t necessarily true. While it is true some ultra compact 1911s with barrel lengths under 3.5” often have reliability issues, there are other important factors involved such as spring weights, firing pin stop dimensions, ammunition selection and whether or not the pistol will push feed.

The basic functional difference between a full size (as John Browning designed it) 1911 pistol and a compact version with a 4.25” or shorter barrel is slide mass and speed. Basically anytime you reduce mass and propel it with the same energy you will get faster cycle speed. Why does this matter? The pistol needs a certain amount of time to eject a fired case, allow the magazine to lift, position the next round for proper feeding and chamber the round. When slide mass is reduced and therefore slide cycle speed increased there may not be time for this to all happen properly.

So we must slow the slide cycle speed down and this is accomplished by a combination of the following:
Heavy hammer spring
Square bottom firing pin stop
Ammunition that generates less recoil impulse
Proper recoil spring weight for the ammunition used.
Of course the Shield owners have no options to adjust any of these mechanical variables, EXCEPT ammunition selection.

It’s much easier to slow the slide down by making it harder for it to cock the hammer than it is to just add poundage to the recoil spring. What we’re doing here is increasing the force needed to cock the hammer with a heavier spring and reducing the slides ability to cock the hammer by lowering the leverage point on the hammer, thus slowing slide cycle speed.

All the mechanical changes are important, but the biggest factor is ammunition selection because it affects both slide cycle speed and the magazine’s ability to lift the cartridge into position for proper feeding. Ammunition loaded with 230gr bullets generate more recoil impulse (especially +P loads) than 185gr loads and 7 rounds of 185gr ammunition weighs 315gr less than 7 rounds of 230gr ammunition making the column of ammunition easier for the magazine spring to lift. I hope you see where I’m going here? With modern hollow point bullets we have LOTS of bullet choices of 200gr or less that have proven to be VERY effective in regards to terminal performance.

Here are my personal ammunition choices for compact 1911s:
Range/Match Use
200gr Lead Semi-Wadcutter (H&G #68 mold) loaded to 850fps 200gr Hornady HAP loaded to 850fps

Self Defense
160gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 1050fps 185gr Barnes TAC TX loaded to 950fps 185gr Winchester Silvertip
185gr Remington Golden Sabre
200gr Hornady XTP

The ammunition you DO NOT want to shoot in compact 1911s is 230gr +P loads!

At Wilson Combat we have also pioneered the use of modern flatwire recoil springs in Compact 1911 pistols. These springs will enhance your overall reliability since they hold their overall length and tension many times longer than standard round wire springs since the coils never go into bind.

After extensive testing we now put them in all our compact pistols.

This brings us to push feed. 1911 pistols are designed for controlled round feeding which means the cartridge is supposed to slide under the extractor hook as it feeds into the chamber.

However all 1911s don’t always do this, especially when slide speed is increased. This is really no big deal as long as the pistol is set-up to push feed. This is simply the shaping of the front of the extractor hook so it can snap over the case rim without undue resistance. This is easy to check by putting a empty case in the chamber, slowly lower the slide until the extractor contacts the case rim, then snapping the slide shut. You should be able to do this fairly easy with your thumb. If the slide won’t close or it takes both thumbs to close the pistol, it probably won’t push feed properly and the extractor needs adjusted.

I began shooting 4” compact 1911s almost exclusively in the late 90s primarily due to my failing eyesight, it just became easier for me to get a good focus on the sights with them closer together. 100!s of thousands of rounds later and several major IDPA match wins I can assure you a properly set-up and fed compact 1911 is every bit as reliable as any full size. As a final testament to my faith in a 4” compact, I carry one on my hip EVERY day, usually loaded with 160gr or 185gr Barnes TAC XP bullets.

Just sayin'.


Caution: Pseudo-science and / or amateur photos may be embedded in this post.
Oh boy, wrong person to post this to! A few months ago, as a retirement present to me, I bought a Wilson Combat Compact Tactical Carry with all the bells and whistles, absolutely beautiful gun. EXCEPT, it wouldn't shoot my ammo of choice, which at the time (and still is in my 5 inch Dan Wesson Specialist), was Winchester Ranger T-Series 230 gr. JHP's, even after over 500 shots of break in, wouldn't feed reliably. So, I checked the extractor and found it to be WAAAY too tight, how it got by THREE inspections for tension is beyond me, but anyway, I fixed it myself, but it didn't solve the problem. So, after telling Wilson that since they don't specify that there are ammo restrictions on their website in the various different makes and model descriptions, and it's only found buried away in their FAQ section, I wanted a gun that fed the ammo that I chose to use in my $3700.00 (with LE discount!) gun. So I sent it back to them, and about two and a half weeks later I got it back with the information that they replaced the recoil spring with some type of cut down heavier Franken-spring, and replaced the mag springs with new ones (they were new!). So off to the range I go, where I immediately discovered the recoil spring was now weaker (not stronger) and, although it did feed the ammo reliably, it also had a huge case of slide slap. Emailed WC, told them my problems with the gun and requested a refund. They said no, they fixed the problem. In the interim, while cleaning the gun I discovered that the feed lip on the barrel had been ground down some, and the perfect mirror finish was gone, funny that they didn't mention that. So, for the hell of it, I ordered a stock recoil spring from them, stuck it in the gun, and it runs perfectly, no slide slap, feeds every commercially made ammo I have perfectly. My conclusion is that for some reason they didn't want to disclose they had to grind down the feed lip on the barrel, but the gun I got back would have prematurely worn due to the slide slap, and if I hadn't taken the initiative to try a stock recoil spring again, then who knows.

So, clearly they can make 4 inch barrel guns that can easily shoot most any ammo, except the +P 230 grainers, just like most other manufacturers can.
THEY JUST WANT TO SELL THEIR OVERPRICED REBRANDED HORNADY AMMO! I love the gun now, it shoots like a dream, but it's steel and heavy so I don't carry it much, the Shield fills that role very well.

I would NOT recommend Wilson Combat guns to anyone buying a 1911, buy a Dan Wesson and you have nearly the same fit and finish, better performance, at a MUCH lower price.

Rant over, I feel better....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg wilsonsm.jpg (3.55 MB, 37 views)
File Type: jpg dw1sm.jpg (3.42 MB, 36 views)

Last edited by Anotherbob; April 19th, 2017 at 08:23 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2017, 06:07 PM   #7
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Nice bob, very nice
How do you like the APEX trigger over the OEM M&P trigger, what do you most notice different.
First off, there's no difference at all in the amount of take up, it's still there, MAYBE a little lighter, but no reduction in the length. Overtravel is just about non-existent. Reset is very precise and light, possibly, MAYBE a tad lighter than stock. If I had it to do over again (and I guess I do, but what a pain to take apart, Glock has them beat there) I'd leave the factory trigger spring in as it is lighter than the Apex replacement one. Supposedly Apex had to leave it close to stock to keep the lawyers happy. The main reason I changed it was so that I could have a Glock-like trigger bar safety, and other difference is frosting on the cake!
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Old April 19th, 2017, 08:35 AM   #8
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Nice looking Shield and good ammo choice!
Thank you!
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Old April 19th, 2017, 09:31 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by Anotherbob View Post
First off, there's no difference at all in the amount of take up, it's still there, MAYBE a little lighter, but no reduction in the length. Overtravel is just about non-existent. Reset is very precise and light, possibly, MAYBE a tad lighter than stock. If I had it to do over again (and I guess I do, but what a pain to take apart, Glock has them beat there) I'd leave the factory trigger spring in as it is lighter than the Apex replacement one. Supposedly Apex had to leave it close to stock to keep the lawyers happy. The main reason I changed it was so that I could have a Glock-like trigger bar safety, and other difference is frosting on the cake!

That'll drop your pull weight by about one pound, and that's why I put The Apex striker block and sear in all my carry M&P's, rather than the DCAEK.
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Old April 19th, 2017, 05:34 PM   #10
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Nice barrel! Two questions:

1-- how easy was it to remove the coating? melanite IIRC? I did the vinegar to a Sig barrel and the coating is too strong that it didn't completely come off (and didn't want to get too aggressive with it)

2-- with it polished, does the barrel have anymore play than prior to? tempted to do the same on my 9.
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Old April 20th, 2017, 07:40 PM   #11
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Nice barrel! Two questions:

1-- how easy was it to remove the coating? melanite IIRC? I did the vinegar to a Sig barrel and the coating is too strong that it didn't completely come off (and didn't want to get too aggressive with it)

2-- with it polished, does the barrel have anymore play than prior to? tempted to do the same on my 9.

1. - Very easy with the vinegar, I also tried a Sig P938 barrel, had to order a new barrel!

2. - No difference in play, but the surface seems smoother.
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Old June 2nd, 2017, 06:16 PM   #12
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That'll drop your pull weight by about one pound, and that's why I put The Apex striker block and sear in all my carry M&P's, rather than the DCAEK.
Do you also polish everything or just use the Apex parts? So, you get around a 4.5 trigger? The reason that I ask is the I am not sure if I want to order the Duty carry kit of just the striker block and sear.
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Old June 4th, 2017, 11:58 AM   #13
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Thank you!
You're welcome!
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