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Installing thumb safety

18K views 18 replies 8 participants last post by  MaynardJamesKeenan 
#1 ·




Can i have a thumb safety installed on this M&P that did not originally come with it?(9mm) It's the newer range kit.
C&D wasnt sure themselves. Any thoughts?
 
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#2 ·
Unless the frame has the removable thumb safety plugs one will have to make cuts in the frame. The worst part is getting ones hands on a thumb safety sear housing block; no one has it for sale and S&W will not sell it. Having a 2nd M&P with a TS would be the best way or find someone willing to trade or sell the thumb safety sear housing block.



Best luck!
 
#3 ·
Jason,



I think hes asking because the newer range carry kits and the VTAC M&P 9mm and 40 guns that come without safeties HAVE the frame cutuots already.



I wouldnt be surprised if Smith is trying to standardize their lines and is simply shipping one frame type these days and perhaps one sear housing. It would certainly make sense.



The only thing that makes me pause and wonder is due to the fact that Smith is not immune to bonehead decisions. Plus, they still need to offer the sear housings with the internal locks.



Im curious about this also.
 
#6 ·
One answer has been given already.



I know a lot of people here don't like the thumb safety but it would make me feel a lot better about having a chambered HD gun around my girlfriend. So I emailed S&W about adding one to my M&P 45fs.



My emails and replies



Hello,



I have a M&P 45FS model without the thumb safety and would like to change it. I would like to ether just buy the parts needed(preferably) or send it in to be added(if needed). Please let me know if ether is possible and if so how much would it cost.



Thanks for any and all help.



Hello,



Unfortunately it is not possible to retrofit a thumb safety on an existing gun. It can only be installed during the initial manufacturing process.



Regards,

Dave Valenze





Mr. Valenze,



First of all thank you for responding to my email in a timely matter. Second, I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on your answer. Because, from the M&P forums I have read it's not a matter if you can. It seems to be a matter of won't. From my understanding since my M&P already has the cutouts on the frame all I need Is the the thumb safety, spring, and one other piece that will fit into my existing sear block... Am I missing some technical reason or is it a policy/legal reason?



Hello,



The thumb safety can only be installed on the gun during the initial manufacturing process for legal reasons. The configuration of the pistol is linked to the serial number which is on file with the BATF. We are not allowed to change that configuration or sell the parts that would let someone else modify the pistol.



Regards,



Dave Valenze
 
#7 ·
I call BS on Dave Valenze's last comment....



While you do need the appropriate sear block to install a thumb safety, that "legal reason" comment seems specious....



I think their problem is that you would end up removing a Hilary Lock if one was present.... Not quite the same thing....



(The sear block for the thumb safety has a design that makes it impossible to install a Hilary Lock.... S&W just won't sell those guns in places where the lock has to be there....)



Otherwise, thinking about it, it's kind of silly to sell you a gun where the thumb safety can be removed in five minutes or so by anybody with an appropriate roll pin punch - in effect removing a safety feature - while not letting you install the same safety feature on a gun you bought without it for whatever reason....



Jason, I know you're aware of what I did - swapped the "grip" of a 9C with a thumb safety with a 40C without it. Essentially just exchanged slides, barrels, recoil springs, and magazines. But this happened because I had the 9C already. Damned expensive upgrade otherwise
....



Regards,
 
#8 ·
Jason,



That is one answer but it's not the answer to this particular question. IF the range carry kits have the correct sear housing they CAN accept a safety. Forget smiths lawyer drivel. I think asking smith which sear housing the new vtac and range carry kits come with is a reasonable question since they feature new frames with the cutouts.
 
#9 ·
I think the best thing S&W could do is make available all of the SHBs.
 
#11 ·
The flat dark earth frames have the plugs. So yes, you need the thumb safety, the spring and the detent. You can get thumb safeties from cane and derby. You can ask them about the other two parts.
 
#12 ·
Reiverman:



You also need a sear block that can accept the thumb safety cam follower.



It appears that you can't attach that part (actually a spring and a little widget) in the standard sear block....



Also, the thumb safety acceptable sear block has no provision for the Hilary Lock, which may be why S&W won't sell that block.



I don't know why they've got models out there with the square cutouts that won't accept the thumb safety....



(Especially since there's a plug that needs to be supplied, and the inventory issues that go with them.)



The funny thing (besides the Hilary Lock thing) is that the thumb safety is a trivially simple device - possibly an afterthought, but the cam follower and spring apparently couldn't be attached to the standard block. (In any case, it kills the Hilary Lock, too, but I think that could have been avoided by finding a way to put the cam follower on the other side of the sear block. The Hilary Lock really doesn't impinge on that side of the block at all - or something could have been designed to avoid the problem. Doesn't appear to be a choice on the lock side....)



Regards,
 
#13 ·
You also need a sear block that can accept the thumb safety cam follower.


+1, and manual safety sear blocks are not yet available in the parts distribution chain. From the sounds of it they never will be (at least I'm not holding my breath).
 
#14 ·
KRWeiss:



I wonder about that.... Seems like there are enough PD's (and similar agencies) who bought the thumb safety to presume that some replacement sear blocks would be needed that included the thumb safety hardware....



The question is when, and who they'll sell 'em to.



I still see it as a hard to get item because of the temptation to remove the Hilary Lock
....



Regards,
 
#16 ·
I did a post on this not to long ago(S&W Answer to Adding Thumb Safety) it might be of help to you. Also before you do anything else, you need to take out your sear housing. I used Apex's YouTube video on installing the hard sear as a reference the first time I had to do this. If you're not sure what your looking for then take a picture of the sear housing's left hand side( as if holding the gun) and PM me. I never had to look for the sear housing cause I had the right one but I've looked "everywhere" for the spring and cam with no luck. So when things slow down in my life I will be making the internal parts myself and if everything goes good I'll be making extras to help out those here who can use it. I'll be sure and post an update good or bad ASAP.
 
#17 ·
Perhaps, maybe at some point we will see Apex Tactical make sear housing blocks for people who want to tinker. I think that would be more likely to happen then S&W putting the thumb safety sear housing blocks out in the armorer and retail channels.



Who knows hope, pray, sacrifice a chicken or whatever it is that people do to increases the likelihood of things happening.





P.S.



Someone with an FFL could buy TS models and part them out for some profit.



I think it would be great if there was a way to build an M&P in store. Pick a frame, SHB(s), slide(s), barrel(s), sights, grip strap(s), magazines and take it all home.
 
#18 ·
Jason:



Love the idea, but given that you can buy a sear block from Brownells for about $30, and the cost of the tooling involved might be significant, I don't see Apex doing it....



What would be nice is a mod to the stock sear block to put the thumb safety cam follower on the other side - no idea if it could be done, but it might be possible to avoid killing the Hilary Lock doing it that way, and I think that's still the real legal issue. (S&W just doesn't want to tell you how to remove the lock, or remove it for you, IMHO.)



Apex probably could do that....



It also might be possible to build the cam follower (it would likely take a custom thumb safety too) into the ejector, for example. No change at all to the block - just pop out the ejector (it usually falls off anyway
), and.... (The thumb safety block I have has a different ejector. Won't fall off....) I don't know whether this is possible or not, but a minor mod to the block wouldn't be a big deal if there are clearance issues behind the ejector...



(Just an IMHO - Randy says that the sear block is really hard to machine.... Could be s problem....)



Going to the store and buying a bag of parts is hilarious.... Just like a 1911
.... However, there have to be some equally hilarious legal liability issues, and the folks at ATF might take a dim view. (If you buy a fully functional gun from an FFL - ignoring the "manufacturer" stuff - and then modify it, the ATF guys only get upset if it'll shoot more than one round without releasing the trigger, and the lawyers will come after you if there's a problem. The dealer's likely to be immune, although he could have to pay some lawyers to stay that way.)



But S&W could charge you another $50 or something like that to assemble a gun to your specs - like used to order cars. (I guess you can still do that - the closest I ever got was getting a dealer to ask around for a combination of features I wanted on a "dealer trade" basis. The wife picked the color, and then didn't like it, but I still drove it for 11 years.)



Just happened to think (off topic a hair) - when my dad was very young, you could go into a hardware store and buy a bag full of parts to take home and assemble a radio.... Buying a fully assembled one was kind of rare then.... (He was born in 1914.) Not that you can still do it (I haven't thought about this for years), but nowadays it'd be one big IC, an LCD display, and a few pushbuttons....



Back to topic: I hope Randy & Scott see this.... Might be a product or two there.... Looks like I won't make the NRA show to meet them - the wife managed to schedule some surgery for herself.... (I'd tell her "see ya!", but....
)



Regards,
 
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