MaddMax

I agree. Surrender is not an option. That's why they also taught us hand to hand combat and gave us a bayonet to afix to our rifle and also use in hand to hand combat.

What ever is left to fight/defend ourselves with could have been an entrenching tool.

MaddMax

Also known to the seasoned Vets as escape and evade.

M4Gunner

Thats good! You used your training to get the job done. BZ! BUT.. if youve seen combat, then you know how (for a lack of a better word) rare it is to use your sidearm. keep in mind, were not talking about combat maneuvers, and having a squad to work in tandem with, in this 'scenario'. we're talking about SHTF.. which is really kind of pointless, due to the fact that SHTF could mean 9 different things. (from hunkering down in your house, to being forced to hump your gear, day in and day out, while protecting your family, in the middle of who knows where.)

Absolutely! but, depending on the scenario.. you may not have a choice. Like I said above.. there are so many possibilities of what could happen, who the hell knows. But yes, obviously if you have the chance, E&E! my point from the beginning was that, for me, if i DO have to be in the scenario of humping, ..I personally will NOT be carrying 200 rounds of sidearm ammo. thats all I was saying from the get-go.

stepheninaz

As much as I like the .357Sig, I'd more likely go .40 as the gap between these 2 is extremely small, and at the end of the day the .40 pokes a slightly bigger hole, and that's never a bad thing. Now .40 vs .45.....If both pistols held only 7 rounds, I'd pick the .45---but that is not the reality of the situation. I would decide based on handling, which one you shoot best, etc.

I just went thru this scenario (for the 100th time) when I purchased my recent M&P. I went 9mm this time. Why? I've shot .40 and .45 for years, .40 was just wearing on me, and there wasn't much performance leap from 9mm. I shoot 9mm better, actually enjoy shooting it, and I like it's vast availability. If I ever own another .45, it'll be a 1911 or nothing. Love the 1911, but I'll take the increased capacity of the 9mm. .357Sig, I LOVE THIS ROUND; but it's timing was poor. IMO, it's too much of what I call an "in-between'er" round. +p9mm nearly matches it, as does 155gr .40S&W; it's expensive, and not widely available---so, as much as I like it, it wasn't a practical choice for me.

M4Gunner

Yeah.. I would say that the .357 has a much more 'abrupt' recoil than the .45. For me, it allows faster followup shots. something to keep in mind, for sure.

stepheninaz

If .357Sig was as popular/widely available as 9mm/.40, and priced competitively; I'd be on it like a fat kid on a cupcake. I love it's flat trajectory, bottleneck design, and quick follow-up shot capability due to super-fast slide velocity.

M4Gunner

lol, yeah. I hear that. Thats the main reason I got rid of my G32's. It does tend to penetrate pretty deep, but.. so does the .40 sometimes. what are ya gunna do?!..

jasonuscg

Get an M&P40 or M&P357, like I said before...

M4Gunner

Hey, I said that too! When all this is over, we should get an apartment! hahaha

MaddMax

Ideally... Having a back up weapon the same cal as your primary would be the way to go.

When SHTF (reguardless of how). Improvise, adapt and overcome will be how you will survive it or not. Lets just hope it never happens.

M4Gunner

.

neorebel

Great advice!

I like the .45 cal ACP because shooting twice is silly








QUOTE=jasonuscg;324945]Either will punch holes in soft stuff just fine.

The M&P357 will allow one to shoot .40 S&W with a barrel change or 9mm with a "conversion barrel" and 9mm magazine. KKM Precision & Storm Lake Barrels make 40/357 > 9mm conversion barrels.[/QUOTE]

Brimstone

What is your time frame for a SHTF scenario? I believe you are planning for a short term problem as opposed to a long term financial collapse or civil unrest/war. If you are preparing for 200 rounds in a secondary weapon over a prolonged period of a year or more, I believe you may be underestimating your needs. My inventory of 5.56 far exceeds my 9mm and I doubt that either will ever be an issue, but why would I want to make things more difficult for myself in a prolonged situation.

M4Gunner

honestly, I dont have a time frame, because, IMO, its never going to happen! IF, and I stress IF, it did.. and it took more than a year to get over.. do you really think that youre still going to be in your own home? Cuz ill tell ya right now.. unless you have a fortified compound, you wont be. given your year+ idea, youll be forced to leave before you get to that point, either looters/gangs or the gov't will make sure of it. and at the point when you have to leave.. youll load up all your food, water, guns, ammo etc. in your truck and start driving. where to? theres no gas left so.. that leaves you stranded in the middle of nowhere. (if youre foolish enough to drive public roads in a 'lawless' world in the first place.) now.. youre walking! so tell me.. how much secondary ammo do you take with you, and how much do you leave in the truck, waiting for someone else to come along and grab it?

THATS my rational for my 200 round estimate. Dont get me wrong, I believe in having ass-loads of ammo on hand.. but NOT for SHTF. just for fun!

jasonuscg

Threadjacked!

vmainaz

First if the SHTF you need a rifle and lots of ammo. The pistol should be your secondary. If you think you need 100s of pistol rounds for your secondary weapon you need a more reliable rifle. When it come to everyday 357sig v 45ACP, you must pick what you are most comfortable with and can best afford to shoot. Both pistol rounds are capable of stopping threats instantly with well a single placed shoots. Also take into account mag capacity and weight. I know when I converted from 45 APC to 357 sig ( Glock 21 to Glock 31)I dumped nearly a pound off my belt and picked up 9 additional rounds on my load out ( 3 Mags). When it come to reloading, once fired 357 sig brass and bullets(125 grain) are cheaper than 45 brass and bullets (185grain to 230 grain).

Bongo Boy

...anyway, post-apocalyptic scenarios aside, I'd think in terms of the kind of shooting you expect to do, the variety of handguns you expect to own, and your degree of comfort with multiple calibers to stock and reload.

Near as I can tell .357 Sig is an excellent cartridge in terms of all around performance, although I've not heard anything about its inherent accuracy compared to any other cartridge. The 45, of course, is rather legendary for its accuracy. I don't consider this to be an important factor for the kind of shooting I do nor for self defense, so I don't go looking for an 'accurate' cartridge--anything is accurate enough.

I enjoy 40SW and 45ACP because both are extremely common, and so brass is plentiful and cheap. And, for both cartridges, handload data abounds--both published and pet loads from a multitude of competititve shooters (IDPA, USPSA, bullseye, etc). I can pick up free brass in nearly the same quantity as I lose, and seldom have to buy it anymore. I actually saw .357 SIg brass on the floor at the club just today--but it was about the 2nd time I've ever seen it in 3 years. Not quite as common.

I like to load 40 and 45--and especially 45. I like the straight-walled cased because I can see the powder charge in each case as it cycles around the press, and I like the somewhat bigger sized cases for ease of handling. Compare the versatility of the 45 in terms of how it can be successfully loaded (bullet choices, performance choices) and it's hard to beat, I think. This may not be important to you if you know you won't ever shoot, say, IDPA or bullseye, for example.

As mentioned, there's the whole swapping of barrels and mags to get a second caliber option with relative ease. If that's important to you, then I'm thinking .357 Sig is the choice there. It's of no importance or interest to me, and not something I'd ever do. So, here you have to think about why you'd want to do that and if it's an attractive option. In a carry weapon, I don't care much for the idea of it being configurable in multiple calibers, so in that case it's actually a negative to me.

So for me, it's 45 no question, among the choices you gave. If I really wanted an extra round or two, then it would be 40SW. If my plan was to buy 2 boxes of $2/round SD ammo and seldom if ever shoot the weapon, the it wouldn't make any difference what it was chambered in.

Jordan4

Hello everybody I am new here and this is my first post. Personally I think that .357 sig as long as you can shoot it well is a better choice for the following reasons.

-Vastley improved feeding associated with bottlenecked case.

-Higher magazine capacity.

-Higher likelihood of substantial amounts of hydrostatic shock ( with properly loaded ammo )

-Much better barrier penetration ( in SHTF could be a welcome attribute )

-Availibility of conversion barrels ( who doesnt want to shoot 3 cartridges in the same gun? )

I also tend to disagree with people who compare .357 sig with +p or +p+ first of all because of the beating your firearm would take and secondly because when you pick a
.357 sig load that provides the performance the cartidge was originally meant too than they are not even equal and the hottest .357 sig loads are substantially more energetic than any +p+ 9mm.

Bill in Tx

LOL! Nice try Jason!!