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9mm in-accuracy

This is a discussion on 9mm in-accuracy within the MP Talk forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; Originally Posted by blackhawk556 By using your logic I'm guessing you aren't a car guy. If you buy a car and update some of its ...


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Old March 16th, 2016, 02:24 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by blackhawk556 View Post
By using your logic I'm guessing you aren't a car guy. If you buy a car and update some of its parts, that madness the car more expensive. I see no problem with buying a gun and spending $200 on upgrades. If someone buys a camaro or mustang and buys a super charger or turbo for it, was the car not worth buying in the first place? Some people like the platform but aren't happy with a stock option.
What if you had a choice of spending $35,000 on a car and adding $10,000 in aftermarket options or ordering the same car with the options already added on for $6,000? A $4,000 savings in my pocket is a no-brainer to me.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 08:47 AM   #17
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Is the 9mm round inherently less accurate than the 40 or 45 rounds or is it just a S&W thing?

My M&P 9 FS is on it's 2nd trip to the mother ship right now due to very poor accuracy.

Just my view: 1. Most of these (I own a shield) are not target pistols. 2. It does not matter what the manufacturer claims , they shoot from a bench vise with calibrated ammo that may or may not meet your needs for personal defense. 3. If you soot regularly and cannot keep all shots in a 3 to 4" circle at 10 yards. take a course from a good instructor, and if after that you still can't do it, this is not the personal defense arm for you.

I have shot for just a couple of months short of 59 years now. This is the way I decide. I have target pistols I can center punch 2" at 15 yards. I expect that. They have 6" barrels, target triggers forend weights and everything you need for target shooting. My shield has half the barrel weight, is very light and is shooting personal defense ammo. this is truly apples and oranges. Combine that with the fact we shoot free hand often with one hand and you have a prescription for disappointment. If you want to see if it is within specs, follow the previous posters advice, find out what ammo was used. Shoot from a bench vise (or at least a good sandbag rest taking your time. If you are way outside of S&W spec, then is the time to connect with them.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 08:51 AM   #18
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What if you had a choice of spending $35,000 on a car and adding $10,000 in aftermarket options or ordering the same car with the options already added on for $6,000? A $4,000 savings in my pocket is a no-brainer to me.
To me it's a no brainer that your example is not realistic. Show me an example where you can buy a car at the prices you mentioned.

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Old March 16th, 2016, 09:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by blackhawk556 View Post
By using your logic I'm guessing you aren't a car guy. If you buy a car and update some of its parts, that madness the car more expensive. I see no problem with buying a gun and spending $200 on upgrades. If someone buys a camaro or mustang and buys a super charger or turbo for it, was the car not worth buying in the first place? Some people like the platform but aren't happy with a stock option.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk

S&W Owners Manual States that 3' and shorter barrels should shoot groups of 3.9 in or smaller at 14 yards. If a 4.25 in barrel will not produce that size or smaller, something is wrong and the purchaser should not have to spend more money to achieve that level of performance.

We are not talking about increasing the performance to a higher level than normal like supercharging a car would be.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 09:51 AM   #20
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To me it's a no brainer that your example is not realistic. Show me an example where you can buy a car at the prices you mentioned.

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Go to your local Ford dealer and price F150 trucks from bottom line 1/2 ton to Platimum Series 3/4 ton. You will see that the example above is realistic.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 12:52 PM   #21
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Just as a control test. Have you had anybody that is a good, experienced shooter try shooting groups with your gun.
I say this because my son who has been shooting many years had problems with a 9mm FS XD he had bought and had been shooting for a couple of months. Kept complaining that it wouldn't group. I had been shooting an XD .40 for several years so I tried it. I shot it at 7yds and put 3 rounds in a 1" group. After shooting the gun for a while longer and getting used to the new grip style, trigger, etc... he was grouping just fine.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 04:46 PM   #22
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Just as a control test. Have you had anybody that is a good, experienced shooter try shooting groups with your gun.
I say this because my son who has been shooting many years had problems with a 9mm FS XD he had bought and had been shooting for a couple of months. Kept complaining that it wouldn't group. I had been shooting an XD .40 for several years so I tried it. I shot it at 7yds and put 3 rounds in a 1" group. After shooting the gun for a while longer and getting used to the new grip style, trigger, etc... he was grouping just fine.
If I can get my FS to shoot as accurately as my Shield does, I will be satisfied. Any time I shoot for accuracy test at 15 yards, I shoot from a padded rest on a concrete table.I shoot 3in or smaller with the shield and expect the FS to match or better these groups
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Old March 16th, 2016, 05:25 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by donhudd View Post
Go to your local Ford dealer and price F150 trucks from bottom line 1/2 ton to Platimum Series 3/4 ton. You will see that the example above is realistic.

Good analogy. I put the same amount of money into my 300ZX as what I originally paid for it. Love it.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 05:28 PM   #24
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To me it's a no brainer that your example is not realistic. Show me an example where you can buy a car at the prices you mentioned.

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He's saying options added at the dealer are $6,000 vs aftermarket options costing $10,000. Base car is $35K in either case.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 07:08 PM   #25
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I hope nobody takes offense at what I am about to say, but as a long time Master Class shooter, the weak link in any accuracy chain is the person pulling the trigger.

As a shooter who regularly coached Police officers who had failed to qualify, most people would be appalled at how poor shooters most officers are. Police officer firearms qualification is pretty darn easy, still quite a few have to go back more than once or twice before they can shoot the minimum score, when you see bullets hitting the ground well in front of the targets at 25 yards, at that short distance they have to be shooting 3 to 4 FEET low to hit the ground.

A lot of civilian shooters are very poor as well, and the vast majority of people reporting poor accuracy the problem is with the shooter and not the gun. I shot competitively for years in the Master class, but even I can't shoot nearly as well as almost any pistol is capable of shooting. To accurately test a pistol's accuracy capability it really takes a Ransom Rest to do it, nobody can out shoot a Ransom Rest by hand.

The M&P isn't the easiest pistol to shoot well, I've upgraded my triggers somewhat, but not up to competition grade, so the trigger is one of my biggest limitations shooting my M&P, shooting any one of my single action semi auto 22s like my new Victory really shows me how much difference the trigger can make.
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Old March 16th, 2016, 07:22 PM   #26
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I hope nobody takes offense at what I am about to say, but as a long time Master Class shooter, the weak link in any accuracy chain is the person pulling the trigger.

As a shooter who regularly coached Police officers who had failed to qualify, most people would be appalled at how poor shooters most officers are. Police officer firearms qualification is pretty darn easy, still quite a few have to go back more than once or twice before they can shoot the minimum score, when you see bullets hitting the ground well in front of the targets at 25 yards, at that short distance they have to be shooting 3 to 4 FEET low to hit the ground.

A lot of civilian shooters are very poor as well, and the vast majority of people reporting poor accuracy the problem is with the shooter and not the gun. I shot competitively for years in the Master class, but even I can't shoot nearly as well as almost any pistol is capable of shooting. To accurately test a pistol's accuracy capability it really takes a Ransom Rest to do it, nobody can out shoot a Ransom Rest by hand.

The M&P isn't the easiest pistol to shoot well, I've upgraded my triggers somewhat, but not up to competition grade, so the trigger is one of my biggest limitations shooting my M&P, shooting any one of my single action semi auto 22s like my new Victory really shows me how much difference the trigger can make.
+1
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Old March 17th, 2016, 06:37 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by G56 View Post
I hope nobody takes offense at what I am about to say, but as a long time Master Class shooter, the weak link in any accuracy chain is the person pulling the trigger.

As a shooter who regularly coached Police officers who had failed to qualify, most people would be appalled at how poor shooters most officers are. Police officer firearms qualification is pretty darn easy, still quite a few have to go back more than once or twice before they can shoot the minimum score, when you see bullets hitting the ground well in front of the targets at 25 yards, at that short distance they have to be shooting 3 to 4 FEET low to hit the ground.

A lot of civilian shooters are very poor as well, and the vast majority of people reporting poor accuracy the problem is with the shooter and not the gun. I shot competitively for years in the Master class, but even I can't shoot nearly as well as almost any pistol is capable of shooting. To accurately test a pistol's accuracy capability it really takes a Ransom Rest to do it, nobody can out shoot a Ransom Rest by hand.

The M&P isn't the easiest pistol to shoot well, I've upgraded my triggers somewhat, but not up to competition grade, so the trigger is one of my biggest limitations shooting my M&P, shooting any one of my single action semi auto 22s like my new Victory really shows me how much difference the trigger can make.
++1 I have been saying the basic same thing for years about both HGs and rifles. I also think (purely my opinion) that after 35+ years of shooting at both private and public ranges that a majority or near majority of gun owners have unrealistic accuracy expectations for their firearms, and it has seamed to me the less experienced and less knowledgeable the shooter is, the more unrealistic their expectations.
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Old March 18th, 2016, 03:16 PM   #28
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++1 I have been saying the basic same thing for years about both HGs and rifles. I also think (purely my opinion) that after 35+ years of shooting at both private and public ranges that a majority or near majority of gun owners have unrealistic accuracy expectations for their firearms, and it has seamed to me the less experienced and less knowledgeable the shooter is, the more unrealistic their expectations.

I realize that I am not a professional caliber shooter. In my 70 years of shooting I have learned something surely. I do not feel that I am being un-reasonable in expecting my M&P FS 9 to produce at least equal results as my M&P Shield does. The grips and trigger are basically the same and the FS has a slightly better trigger.



I have owned and shot pistols from Taurus (3 different models), Kimber (2 different models), Sig (2 different models), Springfield and Ruger (2 different models). All of the above produced better groups that my M&P FS 9.
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Old April 7th, 2016, 03:32 PM   #29
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re-worked FS9

After the 2nd trip to the factory my FS9 is beginning to show a little promise. It is now shooting in the general vincinity of the point of aim and beginning to show signs of grouping instead of shotgun patterns. It is now getting the majority of shots inside 3" at 15 yds. This gives me some hope that I can come-up with a reload that will tighten things up.

I am really beginning to like this pistol a lot.
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Old April 8th, 2016, 03:01 PM   #30
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Don I bought a Pro Shop long slide ported CORE 6 (?) months ago. It's accuracy has been disappointing even from a rest. I've done what I could to get as much as I can out of it* but I expected more from the Pro Shop. I thought I had ordered and paid extra to get a competition gun, but it appeares not. Today I took the bull by the horns and ordered an Apex SDI barrel and what I need to install it from Brownells. I hope that'll do it.

* With a Wilson Barrel and 160 grain bulleted loads I'm getting the best I've ever gotten from it; 3-4 inch groups @ 15 yards. I don't call that competition accuracy as I can shoot tighter than the gun from a rest. We shoot much further than that for score. The gun needs to shoot better than I can so that I know what I'm doing.
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