KKM, Storm Lake, or stock - MP-Pistol Forum

KKM, Storm Lake, or stock

This is a discussion on KKM, Storm Lake, or stock within the Polls forums, part of the Smith & Wesson MP Forum category; What barrel do you prefer on newer production M&P's (after the barrel was updated)...


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View Poll Results: KKM, Storm Lake, or stock
KKM 9 16.67%
Storm Lake 14 25.93%
stock 31 57.41%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old September 1st, 2013, 12:36 AM   #1
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KKM, Storm Lake, or stock

What barrel do you prefer on newer production M&P's (after the barrel was updated)
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Old September 1st, 2013, 01:47 AM   #2
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I had the older 1:18.75 and switched to a 1:10 barrel from Midway that is made by Smith and Wesson, its a stock replacement and I can say I am very happy with it. It will easily group under 1 inch at 10 yards so since that's the average engagement range more or less Ill take it.
Now down the line I may get a Storm Lake if I can ever get a threaded on in black.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 08:02 AM   #3
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The factory barrels, old and new, have always grouped 3" or less at 25 yards. That equates roughly to a 1" group at 10 yards. If you're not shooting groups that size then your money is better spent on training and ammunition.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 12:28 PM   #4
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It is my understanding the KKM and Storm Lake barrels are the slower 1 - 16 twist barrels. To slow to stabilize 147 gr bullets IMHO. The new S&W barrels are 1 - 9 twist barrels, similar to the European made barrels like CZ and Tanfoglio who use the 1 - 10 twist in their 9MM guns.

Ken at 10 yards I can see a well defined target at 25 yards not so much. Training won't overcome old eyes.

Take Care

Bob
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Old September 1st, 2013, 01:18 PM   #5
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I know in long range rifle work twist rate is a big factor, but at 25 yards out of a pistol, I don't see how it could be a major contributing factor to accuracy
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Old September 1st, 2013, 01:36 PM   #6
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It's at least possible that opinion has little to do with bullet stability. Some of the best 9mm PPC barrels are 1 in 32" twist, and they drill 1" holes at 50 yards. Some of the longest 147gr 9mm bullets available (>.68") are fully stabilized at a 1 in 16.9" twist rate. The current obsession with 1 in 10" twist has little to do with bullet stability, and probably more to do with hollowpoint expansion.

Another thing to consider: a higher than necessary twist rate leads to more friction, greater pressure, higher heat, and lower velocity.

Last edited by KRWeiss; September 1st, 2013 at 02:03 PM.
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Old September 1st, 2013, 01:37 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doctorweird View Post
I know in long range rifle work twist rate is a big factor, but at 25 yards out of a pistol, I don't see how it could be a major contributing factor to accuracy
You're right, it wouldn't matter at all at that range no matter the gr or power.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 06:40 AM   #8
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Originally Posted by KRWeiss View Post
It's at least possible that opinion has little to do with bullet stability. Some of the best 9mm PPC barrels are 1 in 32" twist, and they drill 1" holes at 50 yards. Some of the longest 147gr 9mm bullets available (>.68") are fully stabilized at a 1 in 16.9" twist rate. The current obsession with 1 in 10" twist has little to do with bullet stability, and probably more to do with hollow point expansion.

Another thing to consider: a higher than necessary twist rate leads to more friction, greater pressure, higher heat, and lower velocity.
I have heard this argument before. There is a reason why S&W is now using the faster twist rate and it isn't just marketing. I have two 9MM M&P's with factory 1 - 18 twist rates that won't stabilize a 147 gr bullet and know of three other competitive shooters who have experienced the same thing. the European guns have been using 1 - 10 twist barrels for the past 100 years so it hardly is a new obsession.

Higher heat, more friction, greater pressure and lower velocity???? Really in practical terms these issues make a difference? You really have to be kidding. Do you have a source for these conclusions as they really are quite remarkable?

Take Care

Bob

Last edited by Canuck44; September 5th, 2013 at 06:49 AM.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:34 AM   #9
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Thanks, interesting read. I up and ordered a 1:10 barrel to shoot alongside my 1:18.75 out of boredom. Looking forward to shooting them both and feeling scientific in the process.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:40 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by KRWeiss View Post
I'm well aware ot the problem with a 1 in 18" twist on 147 gr bullets, and acknowledged that in my post, but it's easily corrected with a 1 in 16" barrel twist (which S&W should have gone with in the first place).

I don't generally respond to rants, but let me offer this:

http://schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel%20Twist%20Rate.pdf
Thanks, interesting read. I up and ordered a 1:10 barrel to shoot alongside my 1:18.75 out of boredom. Looking forward to shooting them both and feeling scientific in the process.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #11
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I'm well aware ot the problem with a 1 in 18" twist on 147 gr bullets, and acknowledged that in my post, but it's easily corrected with a 1 in 16" barrel twist (which S&W should have gone with in the first place).

I don't generally respond to rants, but let me offer this:

http://schuemann.com/Portals/0/Documentation/Webfile_Barrel%20Twist%20Rate.pdf

Sorry Doc, I edited my post from a sat. phone which doesn't work well with the forum as it changes the time of the post.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:49 AM   #12
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Haha, I thought the forum was having seizures.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by doctorweird View Post
Thanks, interesting read. I up and ordered a 1:10 barrel to shoot alongside my 1:18.75 out of boredom. Looking forward to shooting them both and feeling scientific in the process.
LOL! Well you are a Doctor!
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Old September 5th, 2013, 07:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by KRWeiss View Post
The factory barrels, old and new, have always grouped 3" or less at 25 yards. That equates roughly to a 1" group at 10 yards. If you're not shooting groups that size then your money is better spent on training and ammunition.
Wow KR, I have my work cut out for me.
I shoot a M&P9 FS mfg. on 4.15.13 - 1:10 (2 dimple barrel) Apex DCAEK - TruGlo TFO.
At 10 yards I'm getting 3-6" groups (If I can call that a group.) Using mostly 115 gr FMJ.
Can't imagine how bad I would be w/ the 1:18 barrel! LOL
Some day I hope to be half as good as you guys are.
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Old September 5th, 2013, 10:59 PM   #15
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It will come, I definitely don't shoot 3" groups at 25 yards... but I'm getting there!

Definitely not sent from the can using Tapatalk
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