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What if we have a civil or revolutionary war

This is a discussion on What if we have a civil or revolutionary war within the Survival forums, part of the Armory category; Originally Posted by LordRahl The other day a few of us at work we were having a discussion about the possibility of another domestic war, ...


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Old June 6th, 2013, 10:16 AM   #31
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The other day a few of us at work we were having a discussion about the possibility of another domestic war, either revolutionary or civil.

One guy was insisting that the people would have no chance against the government because the president would just declare martial law and order the military to deploy heavy hardware such as tanks and helicopter gunships along with fighter and bomber aircraft.

Some of the guys believe that many in the military, particularly the National Guard, would resist firing on their own countrymen and would actually side with the people. Furthermore, it is highly unlikely that if Americans did fight back against a tyrannical government it would be in any conventional manner (of which they would have no chance of winning) but more of guerrilla actions. Guerrilla actions have proven effective in just about every conflict since the founding of America.

I am curious as to what everybody else’s position is on this scenario?

Also what would happen if we became embroiled in civil war of conservative vs liberal government?
Any war against tyranny would be 10 times more bloody,and horrible than our civil war..the big cities would go first,of course.
I dread anything like that..we are so divided,and diverse,that I feel our diversity would bring us down,as we would be so busy fighting ourselves.
This country lacks cohesion,lacks a united front.
Most of all,this country lacks enough people with a spine!

I would pray that the military would not fire on citizens,and would stand down,or join..Cops have families,and I think they would stand down,rather than become targets.Obamas TSA,DHS,and hard core loyalists would be happy to kill us..asymmetrical warfare is the only option..speed,stealth,small groups is the answer.Study the way the Lakota fought the US army all the way up to the little bighorn,and you have some idea of the way to fight..vastly outnumbered,poorly armed,yet they fought and wrought havoc.
But..they had courage,honor,and great leaders,as well as unity.
Do we have that?
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Old June 6th, 2013, 10:57 AM   #32
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Re: What if we have a civil or revolutionary war

You do realize that almost no one in the TSA has a gun, never mind knows how to use one. Same for DHS department employees.

The agencies under DHS with guns are same agencies that we had long before DHS ever existed and have nothing to do with our current president other than he is their bosses bosses boss.

What part of working for an agency assigned to DHS makes someone any different than they were before DHS?

Let's see is it the Secret Service you fear, or is it the Coast Guard? Maybe its our folks with CBP that are just waiting for the order to rip up the constitution and start killing women and children?

Feel free to slam all the politicians you like, but show some respect for the folks that put their backside on the line to support and defend the constitution so you and your kids can sleep in peace at night.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 11:19 AM   #33
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You do realize that almost no one in the TSA has a gun, never mind knows how to use one. Same for DHS department employees.

The agencies under DHS with guns are same agencies that we had long before DHS ever existed and have nothing to do with our current president other than he is their bosses bosses boss.

What part of working for an agency assigned to DHS makes someone any different than they were before DHS?

Let's see is it the Secret Service you fear, or is it the Coast Guard? Maybe its our folks with CBP that are just waiting for the order to rip up the constitution and start killing women and children?

Feel free to slam all the politicians you like, but show some respect for the folks that put their backside on the line to support and defend the constitution so you and your kids can sleep in peace at night.
^, +1
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Old June 6th, 2013, 11:24 AM   #34
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Afternoon LordRahl

Even though our basic government is pretty dumb when it comes down to it they are probably just smart enough to not try to outright start a war with the main populace.

More than likely they would start slowly by restricting magazine size, then restricting semi automatic weapons ownership by private citizens, next they would start some form of national gun registry so they know who has them, then, next banning any weapon ownership, then slowly following up on all the people on the national gun registry list by confiscating the guns that were not voluntarily turned in.

They definitely won't get all the guns but could pretty effectively disarm the nation as a whole.

From there on they pretty well have free reign over the country.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 11:47 AM   #35
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You do realize that almost no one in the TSA has a gun, never mind knows how to use one. Same for DHS department employees.

The agencies under DHS with guns are same agencies that we had long before DHS ever existed and have nothing to do with our current president other than he is their bosses bosses boss.

What part of working for an agency assigned to DHS makes someone any different than they were before DHS?

Let's see is it the Secret Service you fear, or is it the Coast Guard? Maybe its our folks with CBP that are just waiting for the order to rip up the constitution and start killing women and children?

Feel free to slam all the politicians you like, but show some respect for the folks that put their backside on the line to support and defend the constitution so you and your kids can sleep in peace at night.
I meant no disrespect towards any one,and if you took it that way,Im sorry.

I do respect those who do SUPPORT,and DEFEND the Constitution.
I sleep well at night-my response time is 1200fps.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Mildot22 View Post
Afternoon LordRahl

Even though our basic government is pretty dumb when it comes down to it they are probably just smart enough to not try to outright start a war with the main populace.

More than likely they would start slowly by restricting magazine size, then restricting semi automatic weapons ownership by private citizens, next they would start some form of national gun registry so they know who has them, then, next banning any weapon ownership, then slowly following up on all the people on the national gun registry list by confiscating the guns that were not voluntarily turned in.

They definitely won't get all the guns but could pretty effectively disarm the nation as a whole.

From there on they pretty well have free reign over the country.
This is another very likely possibility. It is why we have to always fight encroachment of our Constitutional rights.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 02:59 PM   #37
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This is another very likely possibility. It is why we have to always fight encroachment of our Constitutional rights.
Not disagreeing with you, but the fighting needs to be at the ballot box. We have encroachment of our rights because people keep electing people that don't care about the Constitution.

The Military and DHS is not the problem, and they are not going to go to war with the American people as long as we have the Constitution.

The solution is simple, start electing people that actually read and support the Constitution and not people that want to twist it to their advantage. Problem solved. The presidential election went to Obama last year because turn out on the republican side sucked. In VA the Senate race went to a democrat because republican turn out sucked.

Pissing and moaning about the government is not going to change anything. Voting will. If even half the whiners actually got out and voted, there would be a lot less to whine about.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 05:22 PM   #38
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I voted,yes I did.The turn out on the Republican side did suck,but then again,the Republican candidate sucked too.But I figured,the lesser of two evils.
obama won partly because of the weak candidate against him.
Also,the over 100% voter turn-out in some states for obama may have helped as well.
Obama Likely Won Re-Election Through Election Fraud - Rachel Alexander - Page full

"The solution is simple, start electing people that actually read and support the Constitution and not people that want to twist it to their advantage"
Couldnt agree more there.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #39
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"Low information" voters abound.



Shhhhhh........We are being watched.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 05:59 PM   #40
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LR, here's my opinion, plain and simple.
1st, half of the internet commando's, especially those who've never had the "pleasure" of fighting in an actual conflict or war, would piss their pants, toss all their expensive arc' teryx gear and weapons, when the first stryker vehicle parked outside of their house with that big ugly gun on the front points at it.

2. The Afghan's fought the Soviet Union for 10 years using very little more than AK's, IED's and other type weapons. Less than 200 U.S. soldiers actually ventured into the country, most of the training was done out of the country, but the introduction of the Stinger which could handily take out Hind helo's and MIG's, and the hand held rockets capable of taking out some bad ass Soviet tanks, turned that war around and made it the straw that broke the back of the Soviet Union.

It would have to be a merciless guerilla war. You'd have to kill the folks that sided with the Government.

Then you'd have to be willing to kill those in the middle who will want to sit it out, and wait to see who "wins" before they take sides. If two folks are wearing blue T-shirts and jeans, no uniform, how do you figure out who the enemy is...you don't you kill them both. In one case it's war, and for the other, it's murder. Nothing pretty or glorious about it. To the reader, the enemy would be no problem, but knowing that one could be stone cold murder, well you're either in or out, there's no middle ground here. Could you do it? If not, no need to feel shame, but you'd likely be better off being one of those who "sit it out".

The military is "iffy". It has changed greatly since I retired in 95. No telling how that would shake out as far as who they would support. My guess is they would be told that the (revolutionaries) were actually radical right-wing domestic terrorists, and should be killed on sight, to protect their families who are probably going to be the group in the middle.

If this offends anyone, except for you that have served in a war with guerilla techniques, such as 'Nam, Iraq and Afghan, and have seen how they really shake out, not how the news and military wants you to see them, I offer no apologies or take no pleasure in this particular post.

J.

Last edited by jbylake; June 6th, 2013 at 06:04 PM.
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Old June 6th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #41
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Just a though, but if we have 10s of millions of people that will not even vote, whats makes anyone thing they will turn out for a revolution?

We have a system, that if people would actually exercise their right to be part of, we would never need to bring up the subject of revolution.

If anyone wants to see this country change, they need to do it at the voting booth, and instead of complaining on the internet, they need to get out there and get folks to vote, and if you can't convince them to vote, they are sure not going to back you up in a shooting war are they?

It really didn't matter if the republican candidate in the last election was sucky or not, people on a sinking ship should not complain about the quality of their life boat or who they have to sit next to when they climb in.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 02:00 AM   #42
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I think you misunderstood my meaning. When i said we had to fight encroachment of out rights, I was referring to using the election process.

No one wants to see this country descend into an armed conflict of any kind and the best way to prevent that is with your vote. We need to elect people who wholeheartedly believes in the Constitution.

jbylake
If armed conflict broke out today, your assertion would very likely come to pass. However the human spirit can be a volatile thing. People do have their limits.

You keep pushing people, and eventually they will push back. History has shown this time and again that pushed to far and the people will rise up.

Our own country was fought for by ordinary people who had had enough of British bullying.

Right now we are not at that point because the majority of the people are not directly affected by the destructive liberal policies. When that changes, you will be surprised what people are capable of.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 06:51 AM   #43
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Re: What if we have a civil or revolutionary war

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bfayer

I think you misunderstood my meaning. When i said we had to fight encroachment of out rights, I was referring to using the election process...
LordRahl, I guess I should have mede it more clear, I was not referring to you directly. I was directing my post to the population of folks out there that seem to feel that some type of revolution is either needed or necessary.

As long as our electoral process is still functioning, revolution is neither necessary or productive.

As for the military, they are neutral and have no dog in the fight as long as the constitutional process is taking place. Once a group of people decide to replace the constitutional process with their own ideas, they are no longer neutral.

The military is not tasked with defending the government or the people, they are tasked with defending the constitution.

To paraphrase the Chief Justice "its not the military's job the protect the people from their political decisions".
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Old June 7th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #44
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As long as our electoral process is still functioning, revolution is neither necessary or productive.
I think that's the real crux of the issue here. A good number of people of all political persuasions feel that the political process does not function. Citizenship in a functioning democracy is tricky, and 24/7 infotainment combined with unlimited campaign dollars hasn't made it any easier. Politics is all about gathering a group of like minded folks, feed them media that reinforces their beliefs and vilifies different opinions, preach that compromise is weakness, point them at a ballot box, and then cry foul if you don't win. All political parties seem equally infected.
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Old June 7th, 2013, 08:29 AM   #45
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Re: What if we have a civil or revolutionary war

And it has always been that way. From ancient Greece to the first continental congress democratic politics have been a messy and near dysfunctional process.

It is no where near a perfect system, and as long as people are involved it will never be a perfect system. With all its flaws, it is still the best form of government known to mankind.

The downfalls of a representative democratic republic were discussed in depth in the Federalist Papers, so its clear our founders had all the same concerns that we have today. Our constitution provides for continuity of government during what can only be described as a continual non violent political revolution. There is not one single part of our government that cannot be changed on a daily basis within the framework of our constitution if we choose to make it happen.

If people choose not to participate in this "continual political revolution" then they get the government they deserve. The unavoidable problem of our system is those that do participate are bound by the inaction of the apathetic masses.
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